RE55's - what should i get

[choppo]

OK, im getting rid of my air bags so i can start getting into roundie-roundie track days (and the Duttin's :yep: ). At this stage i have NO rims for track days/rallys - but they MUST be 17" plus to fit over the calipers.

So the question id like some advise on from the experts here -

1. Is it generally accepted to be better to go with 17's or 18's - remember i am not constrianed by either size as i have no rims yet
2. What rims in both sizes are good - are the std 17/18" commie wheels fine?
2. 245 fit all round however i could get 265's on the rear if i wanted - good idea or bad to have different sized tyres?

Once i decide ill order 4 via the other thread - thanks in advance guys!

[NickS]

Through a fair bit of testing it has been determined (by Dunc & Erik) that 225 fronts and 245 rears work great. Keep in mind that RE55s are BIG, i.e. 225 is more like a normal 235 and 245 is more like a normal 255 ... at least !!!

The lighter the wheels are the better, but that also means a lot more expensive. I bought some VZSS 18s because they will be easy to sell again if I decide to splash out on something lighter, I figure when you're learning you don't really need the bees knees of everything.

I need 18s to clear the APs on the SS ... not really sure if there is any specific reason to go 18s or 17s ... one consideration is that 17s will be a fair bit cheaper, but if you do go bigger rotors they might not fit.

Hope that helps ... a little bit ???

:cheers:

[waylow]

You will get less sidewall flex in 18 inch as they are a lower profile. Although the benefit might be outweighed by the weight increase (no pun intended!)

[lautray]

Through a fair bit of testing it has been determined (by Dunc & Erik) that 225 fronts and 245 rears work great. Keep in mind that RE55s are BIG, i.e. 225 is more like a normal 235 and 245 is more like a normal 255 ... at least !!! :yep: 225 front & 245 rear really balanced my car. Only suspension mods I have currently is a Whiteline strut brace & a Pedders rear swaybar. Will be interesting to see how this configuration goes when we get coilovers & have the car corner weighted.

[choppo]

:yep: 225 front & 245 rear really balanced my car. Only suspension mods I have currently is a Whiteline strut brace & a Pedders rear swaybar. Will be interesting to see how this configuration goes when we get coilovers & have the car corner weighted.
Are you on 17's or 18's? If you had a choice which would you rather?

[lautray]

Are you on 17's or 18's? If you had a choice which would you rather?

I'd go 18's mate. Like waylow said, more sidewall flex in 17's. They seem to lean a bit more. I have tried 17's also, but not in RE55... Yokohama A048. They were no match for the RE55 imo... shaved >2 seconds off Wakefield pb with RE55 18" (Thanks Dunc ;)). 18" also because you have more brake options.

[choppo]

I'd go 18's mate. Like waylow said, more sidewall flex in 17's. They seem to lean a bit more. I have tried 17's also, but not in RE55... Yokohama A048. They were no match for the RE55 imo... shaved >2 seconds off Wakefield pb with RE55 18" (Thanks Dunc ;)). 18" also because you have more brake options.

Thanks!:yep:

[MrKeen]

Ive got 245x18" all round and found front outside edge was badly worn.Dont no if this would have been the case if was 225's on front? Dont know really just stateing what happened to tyres.Tyre place got as much camber out of it day before track day.

[35R]

Ive got 245x18" all round and found front outside edge was badly worn.Dont no if this would have been the case if was 225's on front? Dont know really just stateing what happened to tyres.Tyre place got as much camber out of it day before track day.

Josh when i was running 245's (on the front) i could barely get any camber in. it used to wear the outside shoulders (on the front) down to the canvas. I could have driven more "sympathetically" for the tyres but part of the problem was essentially not enough camber, together with punting a little too hard around turns! Anyway with the 225's (on the front) you can get between 2~3* camber with stocker struts, as a result the shoulder wear on the fronts has improved dramatically (and the car drivers better). Of course it is a compromise with the rotation thing (with the re55's being directional) and the 225's vs 245's (i doubt you would move the 225's to the back) but with the reduced wear on the fronts i think it works out much the same in the end. FWIW, we swap left to right at Wakefield park to even wear out (the left side of the car gets a decent work out there) despite re55 being directional, it seems to work out and we get a lot more wear.

[choppo]

Anyway with the 225's (on the front) you can get between 2~3* camber with stocker struts, as a result the shoulder wear on the fronts has improved dramatically (and the car drivers better)

Are you familiar with anyone using coilovers and 245 fronts - can you get enough neg camber with that setup?

[MrKeen]

Josh when i was running 245's (on the front) i could barely get any camber in. it used to wear the outside shoulders (on the front) down to the canvas. I could have driven more "sympathetically" for the tyres but part of the problem was essentially not enough camber, together with punting a little too hard around turns! Anyway with the 225's (on the front) you can get between 2~3* camber with stocker struts, as a result the shoulder wear on the fronts has improved dramatically (and the car drivers better). Of course it is a compromise with the rotation thing (with the re55's being directional) and the 225's vs 245's (i doubt you would move the 225's to the back) but with the reduced wear on the fronts i think it works out much the same in the end. FWIW, we swap left to right at Wakefield park to even wear out (the left side of the car gets a decent work out there) despite re55 being directional, it seems to work out and we get a lot more wear.

Good info there mate,thought that would be the case.

[35R]

Are you familiar with anyone using coilovers and 245 fronts - can you get enough neg camber with that setup?

I don't know the answer but would like to know myself. The thing with the 245 RE55's is they measure about 260mm wide, but i presume some appropriate coilovers will yield more camber even with that width. Hopefully someone knows

[waylow]

If the clearance issue is with the tyre or wheel hitting the strut then having coil overs will yeild more camber. I think I will be able to get about 5-6 degrees neg on my car (2 sets of camber pins and adjustable strut tops)

[2 cylinders shy]

Ive done some investigating regarding this:
Bridgestone RE55 245/40R18 are 250mm wide
Bridgestone RE55 235/40R18 are 232mm wide (these are not imported here though)
Bridgestone RE55 225/40R18 are 230mm wide

Yokohama A048 235/40R18 are 226mm wide

245/40R18 RE55's with coilovers i got just over 1.5 degrees of negative camber.

[lautray]

245/40R18 RE55's with coilovers i got just over 1.5 degrees of negative camber.
I found with the 225/40/18 RE55, you can go max adjustment on the camber bolt with "plenty" (read: enough) room between tyre & coilover i.e. a poofteenth shy of 3*. Also, with this much camber, tyre wear on the shoulder was significantly reduced compared to when I used to run ~1.5* with stock suspension :).

[2 cylinders shy]

Im going to give the 225's a shot this weekend.
Though i am eventually going to get some wheels with a p35 offset and fun the 245 upfront as well

[lautray]

Im going to give the 225's a shot this weekend.
Though i am eventually going to get some wheels with a p35 offset and fun the 245 upfront as well
I know of one trackchatter that uses 9mm spacers instead of a different offset rim. He also uses longer wheel studs.

Curious to see how the 245's go on the front. Keep us posted :).

[saj]

If you get CSA soloon car rims @ about $200 each in 17s there a +42 offset and with a 8mm spacer you can get 4 degree negative camber with 235/45/17 RE55s with a standard strut.

[2 cylinders shy]

BMW E46 M3 front wheels have a 35mm offset and can be had relatively cheap 2nd hand.

[Hazza]

What is the secret to getting neg 4 degrees with standard struts considering my standard struts max out at under 3 with 9mm spacers. ie. with the stop bolt not even in place, and no tyre on, the maximum lean-in physically possible results in around 2.9 degrees neg??
If you get CSA soloon car rims @ about $200 each in 17s there a +42 offset and with a 8mm spacer you can get 4 degree negative camber with 235/45/17 RE55s with a standard strut.

[saj]

What is the secret to getting neg 4 degrees with standard struts considering my standard struts max out at under 3 with 9mm spacers. ie. with the stop bolt not even in place, and no tyre on, the maximum lean-in physically possible results in around 2.9 degrees neg??

OK i guess i have to explain in more detail [ i hate typing ]. There are lots of ways to get extra negative camber, ive got 5.1 neg camber at the moment for the last track i ran on. Ive got a K mac adjustable camber/caster top which gives an extra 1.1 neg camber so we wont count that which brings us back to 4 degrees. A standard holden rim for a VX SS [ i think there all the same ] is a + 48 offset so by going to a + 42 offset you've given your self an extra 6mm tyre to strut clearance. If you run an 8 mm spacer it brings the extra clearance to 14 mm which will give you more clearance than you need. The next thing you have to do is pull the top camber bolt out and loosen the bottom one which if you yank the top of the brake rotor the hole lot should tilt right out. Now get a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut to let the hole assembaly lean in more [ because the top hole dosnt allow enough travel and the bolt bottems out ]. You may need to take the inside edge off the top of the block were the camber adjustment screw is as some have enough clearance and some dont. Ive probally made it sound harder than it is but should only take about 15 minits per side. You can then get 4 degrees neg with enough tyre to strut clearance to run RE55s at the track all day. There are ways to get more [ which the soloon car use ] like redrilling the K frame suspencion mounting points or runing a spacer between the hub and wheel bearing. You are limeted to an 8mm spacer unless you put longer frount wheel studs in, i got high tensile 10mm longer ones from Romac engenearing that fit strait in and use you standard nut. I hope this post makes sence as im not to good at explaining shit [ and cant spell ].

[35R]

OK i guess i have to explain in more detail [ i hate typing ]. There are lots of ways to get extra negative camber, ive got 5.1 neg camber at the moment for the last track i ran on. Ive got a K mac adjustable camber/caster top which gives an extra 1.1 neg camber so we wont count that which brings us back to 4 degrees. A standard holden rim for a VX SS [ i think there all the same ] is a + 48 offset so by going to a + 42 offset you've given your self an extra 6mm tyre to strut clearance. If you run an 8 mm spacer it brings the extra clearance to 14 mm which will give you more clearance than you need. The next thing you have to do is pull the top camber bolt out and loosen the bottom one which if you yank the top of the brake rotor the hole lot should tilt right out. Now get a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut to let the hole assembaly lean in more [ because the top hole dosnt allow enough travel and the bolt bottems out ]. You may need to take the inside edge of the top of the block were the camber adjustment screw is as some have enough clearance and some dont. Ive probally made it sound harder than it is but should only take about 15 minits per side. You can then get 4 degrees neg with enough tyre to strut clearance to run RE55s at the track all day. There are ways to get more [ which the soloon car use ] like redrilling the K frame suspencion mounting points or runing a spacer between the hub and wheel bearing. You are limeted to an 8mm spacer unless you put longer frount wheel studs in, i got high tensile 10mm longer ones from Romac engenearing that fit strait in and use you standard nut. I hope this post makes sence as im not to good at explaining shit.

Great post, awesome tips!

[2 cylinders shy]

OK i guess i have to explain in more detail [ i hate typing ]. There are lots of ways to get extra negative camber, ive got 5.1 neg camber at the moment for the last track i ran on. Ive got a K mac adjustable camber/caster top which gives an extra 1.1 neg camber so we wont count that which brings us back to 4 degrees. A standard holden rim for a VX SS [ i think there all the same ] is a + 48 offset so by going to a + 42 offset you've given your self an extra 6mm tyre to strut clearance. If you run an 8 mm spacer it brings the extra clearance to 14 mm which will give you more clearance than you need. The next thing you have to do is pull the top camber bolt out and loosen the bottom one which if you yank the top of the brake rotor the hole lot should tilt right out. Now get a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut to let the hole assembaly lean in more [ because the top hole dosnt allow enough travel and the bolt bottems out ]. You may need to take the inside edge off the top of the block were the camber adjustment screw is as some have enough clearance and some dont. Ive probally made it sound harder than it is but should only take about 15 minits per side. You can then get 4 degrees neg with enough tyre to strut clearance to run RE55s at the track all day. There are ways to get more [ which the soloon car use ] like redrilling the K frame suspencion mounting points or runing a spacer between the hub and wheel bearing. You are limeted to an 8mm spacer unless you put longer frount wheel studs in, i got high tensile 10mm longer ones from Romac engenearing that fit strait in and use you standard nut. I hope this post makes sence as im not to good at explaining shit [ and cant spell ].


Top post!

Thats what the forum needs, people who have actually done things.

[lautray]

OK i guess i have to explain in more detail [ i hate typing ]. There are lots of ways to get extra negative camber, ive got 5.1 neg camber at the moment for the last track i ran on. Ive got a K mac adjustable camber/caster top which gives an extra 1.1 neg camber so we wont count that which brings us back to 4 degrees. A standard holden rim for a VX SS [ i think there all the same ] is a + 48 offset so by going to a + 42 offset you've given your self an extra 6mm tyre to strut clearance. If you run an 8 mm spacer it brings the extra clearance to 14 mm which will give you more clearance than you need. The next thing you have to do is pull the top camber bolt out and loosen the bottom one which if you yank the top of the brake rotor the hole lot should tilt right out. Now get a die grinder and elongate the top hole on the strut to let the hole assembaly lean in more [ because the top hole dosnt allow enough travel and the bolt bottems out ]. You may need to take the inside edge off the top of the block were the camber adjustment screw is as some have enough clearance and some dont. Ive probally made it sound harder than it is but should only take about 15 minits per side. You can then get 4 degrees neg with enough tyre to strut clearance to run RE55s at the track all day. There are ways to get more [ which the soloon car use ] like redrilling the K frame suspencion mounting points or runing a spacer between the hub and wheel bearing. You are limeted to an 8mm spacer unless you put longer frount wheel studs in, i got high tensile 10mm longer ones from Romac engenearing that fit strait in and use you standard nut. I hope this post makes sence as im not to good at explaining shit [ and cant spell ].

Great info there saj.

Is the K-Mac strut top the same/similar to the Noltec unit?

Is it possible to use a longer camber bolt? Mine are pretty much right out & max out at almost -3*.

[saj]

Great info there saj.

Is the K-Mac strut top the same/similar to the Noltec unit?

Is it possible to use a longer camber bolt? Mine are pretty much right out & max out at almost -3*.

The k-mac top lets you adjust camber/caster quickly at the strut top. Theres pictures of them here http://www.k-mac.com.au/ . If by camber bolt you mean the little camber adjustment bolt that screws in its only there to make the guys wheel alining the cars job easier, the two main camber bolts though the strut hold all the camber settings in place. How i set mine is wind the adjustment bolt most of the way out and then loosen the two camber bolts on the strut and then push the top of the wheel hard in untill it stops [ if you've done your modafications right it should be -4 deg ]. I then wind the camber adjustment bolt in to fine tune it. Then do the camber bolts in the strut up tight [ if you run this much camber with sticky tires the amount of load when cornering hard is massive and its trying to dial in positive camber so the bolts have to be really tight ]. Then i nip the adjusment bolt up so i can easely tell at the track if the cambers moved by reaching down and feeling if it turns, if it remains tight nothings moved.

[FatBoy]

There's a guy in NSW running an IPRA VZ SS - the thing has dropped it's times dramatically in recent months when the bloke went to 18 x 9's with 265/40/18's. (Pretty sure they were 40 series, i'd have to check).

I don't know how the hell he got 265's under there but next time i speak to the owner i'll try to find out. He's a bit wary of me though as he knows i'm thinking of doing a VX - when it comes to racing a lot of blokes play secret squirrels... :)

Cheers,
Paul...

[lautray]

There's a guy in NSW running an IPRA VZ SS - the thing has dropped it's times dramatically in recent months when the bloke went to 18 x 9's with 265/40/18's. (Pretty sure they were 40 series, i'd have to check).

I don't know how the hell he got 265's under there but next time i speak to the owner i'll try to find out. He's a bit wary of me though as he knows i'm thinking of doing a VX - when it comes to racing a lot of blokes play secret squirrels... :)

Cheers,
Paul...

Paul, 265 on the front??? :shock:

[FatBoy]

Yeah Erik, i almost shat my dacks when i saw them...

I actually checked the sidewall twice to make sure i wasn't seeing things... :shock:

[lautray]

Yeah Erik, i almost shat my dacks when i saw them...

I actually checked the sidewall twice to make sure i wasn't seeing things... :shock:

Holy Dooley. Must be some serious offset/spacers etc there. Any telltale from the outside? Guards rolled? Are the tyres outside the guard? I can't imagine cornering much harder than I do now with 225's. Would love to give them a go. 265's must cost a pretty penny too :headbang: .

Paul, you've got some research to do man ;). How does he make them fit????

[FatBoy]

Dunno, but as soon as i find out i'll be letting you know... ;)

Oh yeah, and they are actually A048's as per IPRA regs, not RE55's. If you have a close look in the photos, it's the red VZ SS that came to grief at the last State round (EC) and got stranded midway through Turn One - a mate in an RX-7 then cleaned him up...

I'll dig up some pics and some footage...

http://www.trentwallis.com/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=IProO2L06&id=TWB_8331web

http://www.therapymasters.com.au/racingpics/upload/Others/ec_rd6_jm.avi

[lautray]

Oh yeah, and they are actually A048's as per IPRA regs, not RE55's.
Control tyre?

[FatBoy]

Erik - yep, everyone has to run on the Yokohama AO48R. The "late model" cars at least get to run on wider rubber thesedays, in the RX-7 i had to run 205/60/15's - that made life interesting... :shock:

[lautray]

So many people swear by the A048. I tried them & didn't think they were much chop relative to RE55... perhaps it was because they were second hand (but still in great condition with plenty of meat on them). RE55 lowered my Wakefield time by (I think) >2sec over A048 :yep: . Maybe they just don't work as well with our heavy cars?

[FatBoy]

I don't doubt the RE55 is by far a better tyre. Unfortunately for the I.P brigade there is a contract between Yokohama and IPRA nationally. The States get a rebate from each tyre purchased etc which goes back into the various clubs (NSW, QLD, VIC etc)...

If you chose not to run the category specific control tyre (in our case the A048R) you don't score points and the car will not comply with 3J class regs. I'd love to see just how quick the red VZ (John McKenzie's) would be on RE55's - it was into the 1.46's at EC and Scott Bucton's VX was less than a second slower as well. I reckon both would be at least a second or two quicker on RE55's... :yep:

BTW - If you want cheap Yoko's to try again chase up the Combined Touring guys - a lot of them are running 18's on VT / VX / VY / VZ's thesedays... ;)

Cheers,
Paul...

[lautray]

BTW - If you want cheap Yoko's to try again chase up the Combined Touring guys - a lot of them are running 18's on VT / VX / VY / VZ's thesedays... ;)

Cheers for that Paul. But don't think I'll be trying them again. Got a very, very generous deal with my current RE55 supplier ;) :D.

[2 cylinders shy]

They look like Drift R's

Maybe he read this http://ls1gto.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175813 thread :)

[NickS]

Cheers for that Paul. But don't think I'll be trying them again. Got a very, very generous deal with my current RE55 supplier ;) :D.

:lol: ... gotta love Maroubra Speed Shop

[Justice]

Erik

Call craig and see if he still has the Kmac ones I gave him. I bought them and looked at them and decided against using them. Craig did the same. If he still has them you can have them if you want. I only use the Noltec ones. I can get up to 6 deg neg. I run -4 deg max as I find I end up with too much temp on the inner edge on semi comps if I run much more

Guys
When adjusting camber remember these are stretch bolts and should be replaced everytime you make an adjustment. I thought there was no need and repleced them every 4 times I adjusted camber. Last rally they worked loose and tore a shock to pieces (yes they Were real tight to start). The better you turn in the more you load the shock. Also with spacers the more you space out the more you load the wheel studs as you are putting the load on the studs and not the hub.

You cant just DRILL the Kframe for more neg. Not possible. But you can have the K frame modified to have adjustable camber pins installed. If doing this you must modify the rack as well or you will be left with 2 threads for the old tie rod end. The steering arms are replaced with ford arms (longer) and new holden tie rods are drilled and tapped to suit the new arms.

I also make sure I keep about 10mm clearence between the shock and tyre to ensure that the tyre doesnt walk and rub up against the strut.

[2 cylinders shy]

Justice I am looking at using a 10mm spacer and longer studs to suit from Brock Race Engineering, in your experience is this a safe option?
Some of the studs on the lhf hub became dislodged at a track day this weekend gone, so I have been forced into deciding what I'm going to before I have had a chance to look into it properly.

I plan to run about 3degrees neg.

FYI there is a new top mount out, it has received a positive review by Steve cramp.

[Justice]

Justice I am looking at using a 10mm spacer and longer studs to suit from Brock Race Engineering, in your experience is this a safe option?
Some of the studs on the lhf hub became dislodged at a track day this weekend gone, so I have been forced into deciding what I'm going to before I have had a chance to look into it properly.

I plan to run about 3degrees neg.

FYI there is a new top mount out, it has received a positive review by Steve cramp.


As per my PM on LS1.

Not a huge fan of real big spacers. Use a smaller tyre on the front to get the neg you need. There is more time to be made up by most people in getting in and out of corners with there driving style than the camber on the front.