VU Suspension Improvements, what to do ?

[BlooHAT]

Gday

Looking at what can be done to my ute to make it handle better. After a recent skidpan day, i noticed from photos taken the ole ute sways, dips and sags in the rear a fair bit. Now i know very little about suspension, and would like some tips on what to do/look out for. Ive noticed Voodoo has a Tein setup out, is this the way to go, or can i make my car handle for everyday, and for the circuit better, without going to the expense of a couple of grand ?

Bigger sway bars help too ? Other than Tein (which seem to be the fashion at the moment, bit like twin turbos) what other quality products are out there ?

If someone with circuit experience could give me some pointers on what works for them, id be greatful. Anything to help the learning process :beer:

Dan

[Glenn@Marranos]

Gday

Looking at what can be done to my ute to make it handle better. After a recent skidpan day, i noticed from photos taken the ole ute sways, dips and sags in the rear a fair bit. Now i know very little about suspension, and would like some tips on what to do/look out for. Ive noticed Voodoo has a Tein setup out, is this the way to go, or can i make my car handle for everyday, and for the circuit better, without going to the expense of a couple of grand ?

Bigger sway bars help too ? Other than Tein (which seem to be the fashion at the moment, bit like twin turbos) what other quality products are out there ?

If someone with circuit experience could give me some pointers on what works for them, id be greatful. Anything to help the learning process :beer:

Dan

An old fart called Sonny told me to never to put the clubbie on a skid pan, he said if you wanna fark it just do it....

Simple

[lautray]

Dan, one of the first things I tried was a rear swaybar to negate the cars' chronic understeer at the track. I think mine is a Pedders 18mm unit (non-adjustable). It definitely helped. Haven't bothered with an aftermarket front swaybar... Car seems well balanced as it is, so don't want to stuff with a tried & proven formula.

Get a front strut brace. I have a Whiteline. I couldn't really tell a difference at that time, but I'm sure it has helped, especially at the track where cornering forces are high.

And lastly, some urethane front radius rod bushes. Stops the front wheels from splaying when braking. Keeps them pointing in the correct direction.

These are relatively inexpensive mods & a good start :) .

[FatBoy]

An old fart called Sonny told me to never to put the clubbie on a skid pan, he said if you wanna fark it just do it....

Simple

Any idea why ??

I'd have thought a wet surface and street rubber would be a lot less abusive on the drivetrain than say slicks and a sticky track ?? :confused:

Cheers,
Paul...

[bluess57]

I'm interested to see what suggestions come forward as well.
What springs have you currently got?
I know my +80,000kms FE2 springs are getting soft. Good for draggin, sloppy for handlin.

Time for me to lower car and put springs in (heavy duty items).
Rear swaybar would be on the agenda. Wouldn't be too expensive (easy fit?)

As Eric (lautray) mentions, I found a front strut brace is a worthwhile mod. Cheap approx $130 and easy to self fit.
Had urethane front radius rod bushes replaced as originals deteriorated/cracked. I didn't really notice the difference on the street.

[DaveHAT]

Dan, would you like 27 cents worth? :lol:

My thoughts ... if you're going to do a LOT of circuit then maybe consider coil overs but as you already know = PRICEY

A good budget setup IMO would be the following:

KYB non adjustable struts & rear shocks ($500-$600 approx)
King (or similar) superlow springs (Front KHRL-47SL; Rear KHRL-46SLHD) ($200-$300)
Holden strut brace - $40
Noltec radius rod, rear diff cradle, sway bar link pin and diff mount bushes


Like most things ... how good your setup is will be determined by the $$$ spent on it. I did mine in stages and to a budget and all the above was had for prob around $1500 over the space of 18 months.

Cheers Dave.

[35R]

Any idea why ??

I'd have thought a wet surface and street rubber would be a lot less abusive on the drivetrain than say slicks and a sticky track ?? :confused:

Cheers,
Paul...

I've done two or three skid pan days. Every time (after the festivities) the car feels VERY tired, and i have to be honest and say the car just feels crap to drive afterwards. I think it's a bit hard on the car, perhaps moreso than a circuit or 1/4 mile day.

[BlooHAT]

Great replys so far guys, really appreciate it.

I have koni reds in the rear, with a pedders spring. Front is a kyb standard type of shocker, the springs in the front are Blue in colour. The ute was already lowered before i bought it. Ive had the front bushes replaced with nolathane, a diffmount in nolatane put in too.

I guess i know every little about coilovers, and what benifit they may have for me. I dont mind spending the money on quality, as long as im going to use what it can provide me, if that makes sense.

Dan

[lautray]

I guess i know every little about coilovers, and what benifit they may have for me. I dont mind spending the money on quality, as long as im going to use what it can provide me, if that makes sense.
What I do know about them is when I went from 5 year old FE2 to front Bilstein/Eibach coilover & rear HD Selby superlow spring & Koni yellow shock, I shaved 1.1s at Wakefield & put me into the 1:09's. So I reckon they're worth it. I was seriously looking at the TEIN coilover kit, but the Bilstein/Eibach coilovers were too good a deal to pass on :D. If you've done the "small" mods, I guess next logical step is springs/shocks & coilovers if you're going to be seeing the circuit often, which it sounds you will be :).

[BlooHAT]

I certainly would love to do more circuit, its by far the best thing :yep:

[NickS]

Any idea why ??

I'd have thought a wet surface and street rubber would be a lot less abusive on the drivetrain than say slicks and a sticky track ?? :confused:

Cheers,
Paul...

I've done two or three skid pan days. Every time (after the festivities) the car feels VERY tired, and i have to be honest and say the car just feels crap to drive afterwards. I think it's a bit hard on the car, perhaps moreso than a circuit or 1/4 mile day.

I'd have to agree with Dunc ... I think you get deceived into thinking it's not being hard on the car because it's wet.

The problem might be that's it's not flowing, lots of hard acceleration to hard braking then back to hard acceleration ... all the while chucking the car left and right.

[BLK 1T]

Nick

I think you just described circuit racing.

Phil

[NickS]

Nick

I think you just described circuit racing.

Phil

Not even close ... if you circuit race like that you will be all over shop. On the skid pan with the witches hats everything is very on or off, it's really hard on the car. Circuit is all about feeding on the power, one turn across the apex, all nice and smooth. IMO the skid pan stuff is harder on the car.

Of course I could be wrong ... :yep:

[saj]

Dan, dont get suckered in to makeing your car to stiff. As you know theres not another comodore over here that gets close to my ute on a circuit and my suspension is pretty basic. Im running standard struts with bilstien inserts and lovell street springs on the frount and bilstein shocks and lovell springs on the rear. Ive got whiteline adjustable sway bars wich i run on the second stiffest setting on the frount and the softest setting on the rear for circuit and the frount on the softest setting and take the bolts out of the rear completly for skidpans. Ive found the strut brace induces understear so i take it off for skidpans but it can be usefull for dialing out turn in oversteer on some tracks. Ive tried a heap of differant settings in my car and driven a fair few commodores that were way to stiff and wouldent transfer weight at all so they understeered on the way in and couldnt put any power down on the way out. The most important thing is get the frount set up propaly so it turns in and then set it up with a nice safe balance with no nasty traits.

[Pulse Red]

I have played around with a few suspension setups in my VX SS and now my Monaro and the one thing that annoyed me about all of them was lack of adjustability for street vs track. This is why I have ended up with Tein Coilovers. They are fully adjustable including height and dampening. They are not cheap but they are good. Now I cant comment on the track performance of the Teins because I have been a wuss and not taken it to wakefield. Stil I have a basic feel for these things and these are better then the Bilstein shock/ eibach spring I replaced them with. Which was in turn better then the Koni yellow/ kings springs they replaced. The Koni's could be adjusted for dampening but not enough. The Teins are better in this department.

I have always wanted adjustable swaybars after having them on my HSV Senator but never ventured down that path with my newer cars. They are awesome, going on the performance of my Senator. I had a really negative experience with the Kmac strut tops and wouldnt touch them if you paid me. Got to know the boys at Kmac real well though :)

I do completely agree with saj, so many people go for the stiffest config and that is just wrong. Even for the track. I have seen some guys run really stiff cars and they are all over the place and not fast at all. My mates RX7 was ridiculous with this and he would even drive it like that on the road :shock:

[2 cylinders shy]

Conversley i run a fairly stiff coilover setup.
So do a lot of high level cars.

My spring rates and valving were specificaly picked for my car by a shop that suply the brute ute series and setup atleast two ipra commodores..

Theres always more than one way to skin a cat :yep:

[FatBoy]

Which cars did they setup mate ??

[2 cylinders shy]

Which cars did they setup mate ??

Sorry i always get the two classes confused :headbang:
I was refering to the Australian Production Car Championship.
They supply parts to Steve Cramp
They setup Mertens APCC Car, etc

I new if i got it wrong youd pull me up on it (i should have just checked)


"IPRA VX SS on the way. Give me a year or three !! "

[Aeron]

I've just had fitted Whiteline adjustable sway bars front and rear in my VX. Im yet to drive it so I couldn't tell you what its like. I'll take it for a run tomorrow morning. :)

And I?ve done a few skidpan days and thrashed the heck out of my XR6T and I?ve found that the car feels stronger on the drive home. After the last one I did I had no rear tyres left? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh85K8VEYkg :lol:

[FatBoy]

I new if i got it wrong youd pull me up on it (i should have just checked)

Nah, all good mate. I'm in semi retirement at the moment but still have a handle on what the IPRA guys are doing. I like to see what the competition is up to so was curious which cars they had done that's all... :)

Cheers,
Paul...

[BlooHAT]

I would of thought eliminating alot of body roll would be a good thing, but i guess some is better than not at all ?

Dan

[VooDoo]

Weight transfer is what you need. Too stiff and your not transfering the weights correctly and can easily get things all messed up. Too soft and you transfer too much weight and can lift the inside wheels (wheel off the ground = bad)

[Hazza]

Lots of good advice here. A couple of things I have learnt. There are two basic ways to get rid of the bodyroll and understeer problems of a big car.

One is to use heavy/stiff springs, small swaybars. The other is to use softer springs, heavy/stiff swaybars. In both cases coupling with good shocks and good neg front camber is important. The 2nd option is usually more street friendly if that is a concern.

Also, I disagree about skid pan days being harder on the car than circuit. For me anyway, I always feel circuit puts much higher lateral and longitudinal loads on the car due to the higher speeds and stickyer, and 100% more brake load, also much more time at full throttle/high revs.

[Delft Maloo]

All i know is my ute needs alot of work in all area's especially the suspension region befor my next circuit day, so all the help is much needed and thankfull for.
My biggest problem besides traction out of corners was actually getting into the corners in any descent fashion. It felt like it was going to tuck the outer front wheel everytime and just understeered the long way around the corners. My lack of experience played a major part of this but there was know feeling or confidence in there any where.