V8 Supercars - Bahrain

[seldo]

Ist Practise results:

DESERT 400 - 2007 V8 Supercar Championship Series - Rd 12
BAHRAIN INTERNATIONAL CIRCUIT

V8 SUPERCARS - Practice


Practice P5 135 Mins
Scheduled Start 13:15

Page 1 Issue 1 SKB07C
Start Thu Nov 01 13:15
Elapsed Time 02:15:00


__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Pos Car Entrant Driver Vehicle Cap CL Laps Fastest...Lap Gap

1 5 Ford Performance Racing Mark Winterbottom Ford Falcon BF 5000 36 34 1:25.3225*
2 88 Team Vodafone Jamie Whincup Ford Falcon BF 5000 40 38 1:25.3268 0:00.0043
3 6 Ford Performance Racing Steven Richards Ford Falcon BF 5000 40 35 1:25.6296 0:00.3071
4 888 Team Vodafone Craig Lowndes Ford Falcon BF 5000 41 37 1:25.6947 0:00.3722
5 33 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Lee Holdsworth Holden Commodore VE 5000 42 38 1:25.7331 0:00.4106
6 1 Toll HSV Dealer Team Rick Kelly Holden Commodore VE 5000 42 36 1:25.7387 0:00.4162
7 7 Jack Daniel's Racing Shane Price Holden Commodore VE 5000 44 40 1:25.8170 0:00.4945
8 9 Caltex Racing Russell Ingall Ford Falcon BF 5000 38 34 1:25.8287 0:00.5062
9 4 Jeld-Wen Motorsport James Courtney Ford Falcon BF 5000 38 33 1:25.8504 0:00.5279
10 17 Jim Beam Racing Steven Johnson Ford Falcon BF 5000 35 31 1:25.9061 0:00.5836
11 16 Toll HSV Dealer Team Garth Tander Holden Commodore VE 5000 43 39 1:25.9379 0:00.6154
12 18 Jim Beam Racing Will Davison Ford Falcon BF 5000 41 32 1:26.0176 0:00.6951
13 67 Team Sirromet Wines Paul Morris Holden Commodore VE 5000 39 32 1:26.1834 0:00.8609
14 55 Autobarn Racing Steve Owen Holden Commodore VZ 5000 38 36 1:26.2217 0:00.8992
15 34 Valvoline Cummins Race Team Dean Canto Holden Commodore VE 5000 45 40 1:26.3122 0:00.9897
16 021 Team Kiwi Racing Shane Van Gisbergen Ford Falcon BF 5000 44 42 1:26.3523 0:01.0298
17 11 Jack Daniel's Racing Jack Perkins Holden Commodore VE 5000 44 39 1:26.3623 0:01.0398
18 51 Tasman Motorsport Greg Murphy Holden Commodore VE 5000 32 31 1:26.3634 0:01.0409
19 25 Fujitsu Racing Jason Bright Ford Falcon BF 5000 34 31 1:26.3650 0:01.0425
20 2 Holden Racing Team Mark Skaife Holden Commodore VE 5000 42 36 1:26.3992 0:01.0767
21 12 Team BOC Andrew Jones Ford Falcon BF 5000 43 40 1:26.4034 0:01.0809
22 10 WPS Racing Jason Bargwanna Ford Falcon BF 5000 42 27 1:26.4236 0:01.1011
23 3 Tasman Motorsport Jason Richards Holden Commodore VE 5000 39 35 1:26.4236 0:01.1011
24 22 Holden Racing Team Todd Kelly Holden Commodore VE 5000 36 32 1:26.4398 0:01.1173
25 20 Supercheap Auto Racing Paul Dumbrell Holden Commodore VE 5000 44 38 1:26.4926 0:01.1701
26 111 Glenfords Racing John Bowe Ford Falcon BF 5000 39 32 1:26.7080 0:01.3855
27 8 WPS Racing Max Wilson Ford Falcon BF 5000 41 40 1:26.8464 0:01.5239
28 14 Team BOC Simon Wills Ford Falcon BF 5000 43 42 1:26.8984 0:01.5759
29 39 Team Sirromet Wines Owen Kelly Holden Commodore VZ 5000 39 30 1:26.9764 0:01.6539
30 26 IRWIN Racing Alan Gurr Ford Falcon BF 5000 43 40 1:26.9881 0:01.6656
31 50 Supercheap Auto Racing Cameron McConville Holden Commodore VE 5000 4 1 1:32.7379 0:07.4154

Fastest Lap Av.Speed Is 161kph, 105% Of First 1 Is 1:29.5886
Current Practice Record Is 1:24.0479 Set On 23/11/2006 By Jason Bright In A Ford Falcon BA
R=under lap record by greatest margin, r=under lap record, *=fastest lap time
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________________________
Issue# 1 - Printed Thu Nov 1 17:28:37 2007 Timing System By NATSOFT (03)63342353 www.natsoft.com.au/results
Timing by V8 Supercars & BIC Timing Team - I Leech Chief

[CV860L]

Thanks Seldo, posting it in here saves me the trouble of having to go look for it, which I usually forget to do anyway.

Good to see the truck accident hasn't affected the Castrol Falcon :bravo:

Shane Price seems to be a lot higher up the ladder than usual.............

[seldo]

Thanks Seldo, posting it in here saves me the trouble of having to go look for it, which I usually forget to do anyway.

Good to see the truck accident hasn't affected the Castrol Falcon :bravo:

Shane Price seems to be a lot higher up the ladder than usual.............Love your avatar - where did that come from - do you know who ii is? It's a great shot

[CV860L]

Love your avatar - where did that come from - do you know who ii is? It's a great shot

Oppylock found it and sent it to me, I made it into an avatar before he got the chance.....ovlov drifting association maybe???????

[lautray]

The gap between first & second is 43/10000 :shock: !!! And here I am whinging about missing a 1:08 by 4/100!

I'm going to try stay awake for the live coverage tonight. 11.30pm on Ch7.

[Quadcams]

Woohoo!!! 7 Fords in the top 10, gotta luv that.:bravo:

[Aeron]

Remind me why Morris bothers to show up? No wonder he was voted ?Most Dangerous Driver? in the series.

[NickS]

Woohoo!!! 7 Fords in the top 10, gotta luv that.:bravo:

:hmmm: ... I wonder when they are going to stop this bullshit of penalising the Holdens every season. Let them race the Holden with an actual VE chassis FFS.

This isn't anti-ford sour grapes either, it shits me in motorsport no matter who they do it to. Growing up playing competitive sports the concept of slowing down the fastest to make the field competitive just seems ridiculous to me ... if you want to win, go faster !!!

:rolleyes:

[Aeron]

:hmmm: ... I wonder when they are going to stop this bullshit of penalising the Holdens every season. Let them race the Holden with an actual VE chassis FFS.

This isn't anti-ford sour grapes either, it shits me in motorsport no matter who they do it to. Growing up playing competitive sports the concept of slowing down the fastest to make the field competitive just seems ridiculous to me ... if you want to win, go faster !!!

:rolleyes:


Um, Nick, do I need to remind of you who is leading the championship?

I also have no doubt at all that either R.Kelly or Tander will win the Championship this year. I don?t think there is any problem with the pace of the VE at all. The problem is that there are only really 2 good Holden teams, Toll/HSVDT and HRT.

Don?t fret Nick, come the end of the Phillip Island weekend at the last round, you?ll be partying mate, and I?ll be sad and depressed........ again :yep: :yep:

[BOMI]

Um, Nick, do I need to remind of you who is leading the championship?

I also have no doubt at all that either R.Kelly or Tander will win the Championship this year. I don?t think there is any problem with the pace of the VE at all. The problem is that there are only really 2 good Holden teams, Toll/HSVDT and HRT.

Don?t fret Nick, come the end of the Phillip Island weekend at the last round, you?ll be partying mate, and I?ll be sad and depressed........ again :yep: :yep:



Aeron I think you totally missed the point of Nicks post :yep: :)

I remember a few years probably many years ago now Fords were not winning due to Holden being faster so the governing body slowed the Holdens down to make it more competitive.

As Nick said, that is ridiculous. Imagine if the world record 100m sprinter got told he had to wear a 20kg weight or start 2 seconds later due to things not being competitive enough.

They all have the same brakes now so what will be next in Supercars to try and make it more competitive?



Troy :yep:

[NickS]

Aeron I think you totally missed the point of Nicks post :yep: :)

I remember a few years probably many years ago now Fords were not winning due to Holden being faster so the governing body slowed the Holdens down to make it more competitive.

As Nick said, that is ridiculous. Imagine if the world record 100m sprinter got told he had to wear a 20kg weight or start 2 seconds later due to things not being competitive enough.

They all have the same brakes now so what will be next in Supercars to try and make it more competitive?



Troy :yep:

That's exactly it mate ... it's so far from Ford vs Holden these days that it's kinda pointless putting badges on the car. The current "VE Supercar" isn't even the same chassis as the road car, let alone anything else. It is in no way a Commodore, nothing about it is the same as a road car ... not even the shape !!!

They might as well make it Vodafone vs Castrol vs Jack Daniels vs BOC etc. etc. ...

I see your point too Aeron ... the HSV cars are clearly fast. However the Ford's have flogged the Holdens at the enduros and there is very regularly a majority of Blue Ovals in the top ten. I wouldn't particularly mind that except for the fact that the VE chassis was so heavily modified to fit the rules.

Hopefully when the new Falcon is released they can all go back to current road car chassis' ... at least that way there is a tiny bit of Ford vs Holden left in the sport.

[Aeron]

Aeron I think you totally missed the point of Nicks post :yep: :)

I remember a few years probably many years ago now Fords were not winning due to Holden being faster so the governing body slowed the Holdens down to make it more competitive.

As Nick said, that is ridiculous. Imagine if the world record 100m sprinter got told he had to wear a 20kg weight or start 2 seconds later due to things not being competitive enough.

They all have the same brakes now so what will be next in Supercars to try and make it more competitive?


They made the rules the way they are to make the racing close and interesting to watch. And I think it is.
As you know parity is a word often used in many forms of Motorsport (not Athletics) and V8Supercars are no exception. Its possible that if the Holdens were allowed to run the same shape/wheelbase as the road car it could have an advantage over the Ford, resulting in more wins.

So would you rather watch a series where one car "brand" has a technical advantage over the other and therefore wins more races, or a series where the cars are technically similar and the racing is close and exciting?

I know which one I’d pick.

In the long run, having 8 Fords in the top ten at the end of a race means nothing if Holdens are 1st and 2nd at the end of the race.

EDIT: Don't forget guys, im not an "Anti-Holden" Ford fan. I enjoy V8Supercars so much because I enjoy both manufacturers.

[BOMI]

Aeron honestly Id pick cars that were not modified to make a slow one closer to a faster one.

If im going to be passionate about a sport and in particular a BRAND I want that brand to be winning and or having lots off top 10's due to those cars being fast and having good drivers, not due to the faster cars being slower.

Not saying that Fords are not fast or that their drivers are no good, I would rather see it how it used to be where the cars were not handicapped to allow for a brand that cant get there shite in one sock and catch the faster car.

As I type this Im watching the Top door slammers on TV, channel 10.

Two totally different cars that are trying to get to the end of the track first by having the best engine and sus set up as well as having the best driver.

Imagine if ANDRA said for example, to Vic Bray "Vic, you're winning to many races so we are going to change your car so its more interesting"

I dont think Vic would be happy. Now AFAIK this has not happened and does not happen in drag racing so if it has dont flame me....too much LOL

Anyway that's my point of view.


Troy :)


P.S. Athletics was an example, I wasnt trying to draw parallels to that and V8's :lmao:

[Aeron]

I've just spent the last hour or so having a look at this years top 10 results for Qualifying, Races and Rounds to see how the numbers stack up and its quite interesting. Im not trying to make a point one way or the other, its just interesting to see it all tallied up.

We?re one race down in round 12 so these results reflect the 12 qualifying sessions and the 29 races so far this year.

Poll Positions:
Ford: 6
Holden: 6
Difference: 0

Race wins:
Ford: 8
Holden: 21
Difference: 13

Round Wins:
Ford: 3
Holden: 8
Difference: 5

These next stats are taken from the top 10 results from the 12 Qualifying sessions so far this year.

Cars in the top 10 after qualifying:
Ford: 60
Holden: 60
Difference: 0

More Fords in the top 10 after qualifying: 5 times
More Holdens in the top 10 after qualifying: 3 times
Difference: 2
Qualifying with 5 all: 4 times

These next stats are taken from the top 10 results from every race so far this year.

Cars in the top 10 in all races:
Ford: 160
Holden 130
Difference: 30

More Fords in the top 10 for all races: 16 times
More Holdens in the top 10 for all races: 3 times
Difference: 13
Races with 5 all: 10 times

These next stats are taken from the top 10 results from every round so far this year.

Cars in the top 10 in all rounds:
Ford: 61
Holden: 49
Difference: 12

More Fords in the top 10 for all rounds: 6 times
More Holdens in the top 10 for all rounds: 1 time
Difference: 5
Rounds with 5 all: 4 times

So, with every top 10 including qualifying, all races and rounds Ford have been in the top 10, 281 times to Holdens 239. That?s 42 the difference.

Very interesting. Ford in general have had way more cars constantly in the top 10 results. Out of all qualifying, race and round results (49 events in total) Holden out numbered Ford only 7 times. Ford out numbered Holden a whopping 27 times, with 18 occasions where Ford and Holden were 5 apiece.

So I definitely see where you guys are coming from. The big question is why are these results the way they are. Is it a technical thing or a team thing?

But that said, Poll positions for both makes are equal with 6 all. But Holden has had 21 race wins to Fords 8. Also Holden has had 8 round wins to Fords 3.

They certainly are some interesting stats. On one hand it looks like Ford are massively advantaged, but on the other hand it looks Holden should be running away with it.

Sorry if its a bit hard to follow, its hard to put into words. If you have any confusion just ask me.

[BOMI]

Aeron, great post mate, a lot of effort went into that.

Very interesting figures in there mate. Whatever the numbers I think it still should be made more even with no retarding of cars for more a more competative season.

Thanks for posting.


Troy :)

[Westie]

Aeron, nice post.

Yeah i agree, very interesting results. It may be this way due to Holden having 2 very competitive racing teams compared to the bulk of the other Holden teams, where as the Ford teams are generally closer together.
This way, as they slow down the Holdens (or speed up the Fords) technically speaking to make the FRONT teams equal, they are equally pushing more Fords to the front, due to more Ford teams being equal.

I think HRT/HDT need to share their setup knowledge in order for there to be more Holdens up front, cause i don't think the organisers will change what they currently have, and that's close Holden/Ford racing (unfortunately only by a few cars).

[NickS]

Race wins:
Ford: 8
Holden: 21
Difference: 13

Round Wins:
Ford: 3
Holden: 8
Difference: 5

Looking at these stats stuffed if I know why Holden aren't walking away with it ???

:confused:

Great post mate, thanks for going to the effort. I think whatever the results there is one thing that all race fans can agree on ... Paul Morris is tosser.

:D

[Aeron]

I think whatever the results there is one thing that all race fans can agree on ... Paul Morris is tosser.


Morris needs a boot in the arse!! I hope Todd went and had a "word" with him after the race.