Is this achievable?

[Pulse Red]

I am considering what path to take with my next round of mods. What I really want is to try and run a mid 12 in complete street trim. This means my real street tyres (OE Brodgestones), lowered Bilstein suspension and full weight and exhaust. My car is an M6 and I am not the best driver, in fact I have never run at the drags, I was more into track racing with my previous cars.

Now obviouly firstly I will need a lot of practice but what sort of power will I need to get past the fact that I will have a poor 60ft? I think this will be to difficult with Bolt ons* so I am thinking a Heads and cam combo? Plus a new aftermarket clutch. What do people think are mid 12s achievable with this sort of power and setup? If not what sort of power will I need and are twin turbos more likely to get me to this goal?



*The car only has full exhaust and 3.9 diff gears at the moment.

[NickS]

I reckon head & cam would shit it in ... twins should see 11s.

But that's just my opinion and when it comes to drags I have NFI. :D Anyone else ???

[Scotty]

Please note the following is my own opinion and possibly not based on any fact whatsoever....
I am unsure of the comparrison costs.. but my mod path is looking towards the TT as oposed to the H&C. However I think you will find both should get you there.

[35R]

I think realistically, with a good launch (albeit road tyres) 250rwkw should get you there. A mid-range cam, with headers/exhaust/intake should work. Of course, H&C or FI should be quicker again.

[seldo]

My full weight Senator 1825kg, with a baby 216/220 cam, a mafless tune, Pacie Tri-ys, Sure-flo quiet exhaust, 3.9, 2 hole (no OTRCAI) and 25% U/D, ran 12.7 @110 on its one and only run, and on 18" SO3s. It is an A4, but standard stallie, and I'd have thought that with a few more runs it might have managed 12.5. That's with 262rwkw. So, if you went a bigger cam, maybe heads as well, you'd bolt it in.... Whilst I really like my baby cam if I did it again, (and everyone says this) I'd probably go slightly bigger, but not too big as it's my daily driver and work car.
And of course if you went TT it's a cert.

[10sec_rx7]

i ran a best 12.2@114 on 18" cheap street tyres with around 250rwkw,
run a heap of 12.7's on the same tyres,
slicked up i went 12.1 consistantly

my setup at the time was nothing special, 4-1's, cats, dual 2.5, OTR and a good tune
*edit, clutch and 3.9's as well *

[highlander_69r]

since u have a M6 i suggest the best advice is practice,

mid 12s are easily achieved with the basics, edit,zorst and diff gears.

like seldo, i have a cam only ss thats run a 12.5 in crappy weather. The best part of owning a gen 3 is mid 12s are so easy compared to the ol 5 ltrs :)

[RedVYIISS]

cam only mid 12 should be easy. RedVYIISS went 12.9 n/a with 3.46 diff, OTRCAI, zorst and tune (everything else stock inc converter) with 16" M/T radials that bogged it down off the line (didn't have enough power for the tyres). She ran 13.1 on crappy street tyres.

[BOMI]

:bow: Newton Meters Newton Meters Newton Meters!!!!

Dont think I read about them once above :stick: :lol:

Mate I reckon IMHO if you when H & C you would see mid to low 12's easy with your experience. Which will get better with every single run you do.

Cams in my limited experience dont give a big increasw in RWK but a massive increase in NM or torque and its that figure that lunches you, makes you car pull hard.

Ive heard the saying "Its the torque that gets you going and the KW's that get yo accross the line"

I say head, cam and edit mate.

Im interested to here what Doctor Mad has to say on this, :bow: Sonny?


Troy :)

[DaveHAT]

cam only mid 12 should be easy.

You'd think so wouldn't you Al. :headbang: As already said, your Mid 12 can be achieved with "bolt on stuff" as evidenced by Erik, Dale, Terry and others but so much of that time is driver ability. Perhaps get the "usual" bolt on stuff done and a good tune, then practice, practice practice.

Head/CAM and probably CAM only will definitely get you there but as with most things, how fast you want to go is relative to the $$$ floating about in ya pocket.

[lautray]

Bolt-on's will get you mid-low 12's. But, as already said, takes quite a few runs to get the right technique in M6 ;).

[Elite SS]

12's Easy......



Just give it to Eric "Lautray":driving:

[Atsetu]

Best bolt on mod for the track would be the OTRCAI.

Then you need to get the launch & your shifts happening quicker. Then you'll run a mid to high 12 easy.

[Sonny@AutoWerks]

I am considering what path to take with my next round of mods. What I really want is to try and run a mid 12 in complete street trim. This means my real street tyres (OE Brodgestones), lowered Bilstein suspension and full weight and exhaust. My car is an M6 and I am not the best driver, in fact I have never run at the drags, I was more into track racing with my previous cars.

Now obviouly firstly I will need a lot of practice but what sort of power will I need to get past the fact that I will have a poor 60ft? I think this will be to difficult with Bolt ons* so I am thinking a Heads and cam combo? Plus a new aftermarket clutch. What do people think are mid 12s achievable with this sort of power and setup? If not what sort of power will I need and are twin turbos more likely to get me to this goal?




*The car only has full exhaust and 3.9 diff gears at the moment.
I have many cams that can get you into 11's 12's,no need for any head work,basically ur shopping list will go like this

1-Cam only
2-OTR
3-Diff Gears
4-Under Driven Pulley
5-Clutch
6-Ripshifter
7-Throttle Body

Though you have to remeber the driver has alot to do with it as well,though believe gettin a car going must be streetable and practical,basically run it to the track,bolt ur radials on,then drive home,also the driver plays a big part as practise makes better times,but horses for courses and this is my opinion only,others may differ :)

regards sonny

[RedVYIISS]

I have many cams that can get you into 11's 12's,no need for any head work,basically ur shopping list will go like this

1-Cam only
2-OTR
3-Diff Gears
4-Under Driven Pulley
5-Clutch
6-Ripshifter
7-Throttle Body

Though you have to remeber the driver has alot to do with it as well,

And when you run your first 12, don't have a brain snap and do a skid infront of the WSID officials...... like a certain member here did first time he ran a 12...

[DaveHAT]

And when you run your first 12, don't have a brain snap and do a skid infront of the WSID officials...... like a certain member here did first time he ran a 12...

Al,
I believe the person in question knew he had a snowflakes chance in hell of getting kicked for going to fast, so other measures needed to be employed. :woohoo:

Your point is a good one though, Mr Pulse Red, when said 12 second pass is secured...ensure brain stays in continual contact with both feet until all soft tissue has been extracted from the vehicle. :headbang:

That and if Febs comes running up to you on the return road ..... IGNORE HIM ! :rocket:


:lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

[Chowny]

I stick with my MAF until i run a 12.999999999999

[Pulse Red]

Thanks for the great responses guys, lots of people have taken the time to answer my questions. I have been taking this all in and having a good hard think about what I am hoping to get out of my cars. At the moment I am leaning towards going cam only and not putting the big Harrops on the Monaro like I planned and just putting better pads in. This will leave me more money for another track racing project I have in mind, however before that project can happen I need to sell my VT. Not much demand for the older cars now days, so definitely a project for next year.

One other question though, would I be better placed buying some sticky 18" tyres like RE55s and running them full time on the rear of my Monaro? Keep in mind this car is just a toy so with the very limited KMS I do I am not worried about longevity. The only downside I can see is I was considering 19s down the track as I am getting bored with the looks of the stock CV8-R rims and I know you cant get many really sticky tyres in 19". I should ask though will running OE Bridgestones with sticky rears make the car an unbalanced handler? I have run sticky tyres on the street before and it is awesome, but I wont do it on the front again as they pick up all the crap off the road and can flick up and scratch the car.

What are peoples thoughts on trying this?

[RedVYIISS]

I've never driven a car with RE55's, but I'm told you couldn't live with them on a daily as they're as noisy as Bu&&ery!

[35R]

Daniel, Allan is right, the RE55's are very noisy (no so much when new, but after a circuit day or when worn). I wouldnt think you would get much out of them on the street, you really need to heat them up to work (perhaps on a long drive through the twisties). I have some RE55's here we could put on the back of your car for a test on the street, but i dont think you will see much benefit. Not sure on the legality of these tyres also.

The best value improvement for you is going to be a cam, matched with a nice exhaust and OTR; it will be awesome for the money.

[Pulse Red]

Ah, I had forgotten about the noise issue. Well pointed out. :doh:

Thanks for the offer of testing the RE55s Duncan but I think you are spot on. Just something that was running through my head to aid me in the 12s in full street trim.

Has anyone slotted a cam in while their Gen 3 has low kms on it? My car is not quite worn in and only has 8000kms on it, am I better off waiting until its got over 10,000kms?

I was concerned that my choice in extractors (CSV Shorties) would hold me back if going down the cam only route as I only intended on staying unopened when I bought my exhaust but I read a post by GM-IRON on the ls1 forums stating:

I have used the CSV short Headers and CSV Exhaust.
I used this headers with the normal bolt ons and then with a cam.
Got talked into going for the long 4 into 1, 1"3/4 jobies in search of more power by some expert and what would you know, $1100 later and we didn't see any difference from CSV short Headers and the bigger and longer 4 into1's.
Not a bad effort for the shorty's
And yes, the tune was optimised to suit.
This was only the results with my ute and might vary with others or with tunes from the super tuners around this place.


He had the same cam that I am looking at, a 224/224 @112, so that is one good thing.

Thanks for all the help guys.

[lautray]

Daniel, fwiw, Duncan's cv8-r ran a 12.9 with a "home" tune, otr & et streets only. Stock everything else i.e. 3.46 gears, oe clutch & shifter, stock exhaust etc.

I'd recommend giving Justin & Christian a call. I'm sure they'd be more than happy to help you with your quest :) .

[Pulse Red]

I do recall that, was it your good self driving? If so can I ask what sort of RPM you used at launch to run that time? How much do you think the ET streets gave you?

[lautray]

I do recall that, was it your good self driving? If so can I ask what sort of RPM you used at launch to run that time? How much do you think the ET streets gave you?
Yep, t'was me. I think launch rpm was >4500 as with 3.46's & ET streets, the revs really bog down when clutch fully out. The clutch was shagged if i recall; from the first pass of the day it was slipping, but that run was magical... the perfect one... netted the 12 :D. That was the objective of the day. Not sure on the value of the ET streets on that day... perhaps ~ .2?