I need more camber

[35R]

I've just had some new coilovers fitted (DMS 50mm kit) but unfortunately the spring seat sits too low - i can't get any camber into it (1* max). Anyway the options at this stage are:

1. Get shorter springs, bring the spring seat up, then can lean the tyre in

2. Use offset tops, spacers etc..

3. Do the control arm mod (move the control arm out)

I have a couple of (potentially) odd questions:

1. Does anyone know of availability of an offset bush for the front/lower control arms? I wonder if the rear camber correction (offset) bushes could be used on the front?

2. I wonder if anyone makes modified / longer control arms?

3. Apparently the HSV Coupe 4 has a rather custom lower control arm, hmmm i wonder?

At this stage it looks like the lower control arm modification is the way to go, but I am after opinions and perhaps other ideas? I want more than 3* and don't really care about streetability.

thanks

[Smokin SS]

I'm in the same boat here and looking for more camber. Who has tried the longer lower control arm?

[35R]

I suppose i should post an update! I ended up getting the lower control arm modification done. In the end we got about -4* from it (total, not extra). It required some custom fabrication (heasmans did it) however i believe Wholesale suspension have another way of achieving the same result with less custom fabrication (using Falcon tie rod ends i think) which might be better in terms of ultimate camber. I have still got the quadrant/bilstein solid top mounts, it's a hard ride (not that it matters too much, to and from the track) but i am thinking about going back to the Notec offset tops again. Since then we've picked up 5~7 10ths at Wakefield so i suppose it's working.

[Smokin SS]

-4' is plenty enough for me at this stage. Currently I can only manage -1'. Definitely no more. It'd be handy to have a bit more room to adjust when required.

[lautray]

Eastcoast managed to get greater than 3* out of mine without the control arm mod. Can't argue with that.

[GTS Listy]

When I sorted out the camber with the GTS and the Teins I gained just under .5 of a second at Hidden Valley on the first time out. Strange feeling as you need to start again to find the limits with turn in and where to brake again. I think there is definitially more to go and honestly if I pushed it a bit more a second a lap would be realistic between camber and stock camber. I run mine about -3.5 degrees but can go out to just on -4.5 if there ever was a need.

[ghz28]

OK an update from where I am heading now.

My new suspension in the front has allowed 4 degrees on the right side and 4.5 on the left at the moment. Now I am running into a wheel offset issue, same as Listy is. My Yokohama 235/40x18s are all but worn out, and I have new 245/40x18 RE55s ready to fit. Problem is I am currently running with 2mm clearance between the tyre sidewall and the strut body (spring seat is well above the tyre height).

After much toing and froing I have decided to get a K frame modified as per the V8 Ute mod to offset the lower control arm outwards by Brock Race Engineering. Luckily I was given a brand new K frame today to be modified so it will head south on Monday I hope.

There are two benefits to this mod, one the track is widened a little, and two, the wheel is now adjusted towards positive camber from the current position, creating clearance to the strut body. Only possible down side will be if the top of the wheel/tyre may now foul the top of the guard....necessitating rolling of the front guards. But I have been told it almost certainly will not.

I also have the Bilstein solid strut tops and find them to be fine, nowhere near as harsh as I thought they might be, and quiet too. Well quiet compared to the noise from the tyres and every little piece of debris that hits the now uninsulated body/floorpan/inner guards.


Will let you know how it all goes.

Cheers,


Garry

[BLACK1]

3 options for more neg camber

Noltec offset strut top bushes

Relocate the lower camber bolt hole further outboard

Use wheel spacers and longer stud bolts Available from Harrop and prob. others ? Rolled guards helps this one

[ghz28]

3 options for more neg camber

Noltec offset strut top bushes

Yeah they were not available when I started this project, so I have
the Bilstein solid tops.

Relocate the lower camber bolt hole further outboard

Yep this is the BRE option I am getting done to a spare K frame. Be good
to have in "stock" in case.

Use wheel spacers and longer stud bolts Available from Harrop and prob. others ? Rolled guards helps this one

Yeah ordered the wheel studs from Harrop a bit over two weeks ago, still not made, so you have to pre-think them....

Now....my 4th option....adjustable lower control arms, similar to what Croft Engineering make for the Saloon Car series....Got some of them on the way too.

Cheers,

Garry

[nqcv8]

Yep this is the BRE option I am getting done to a spare K frame. Be good
to have in "stock" in case.

Use wheel spacers and longer stud bolts Available from Harrop and prob. others ? Rolled guards helps this one

Yeah ordered the wheel studs from Harrop a bit over two weeks ago, still not made, so you have to pre-think them....

Now....my 4th option....adjustable lower control arms, similar to what Croft Engineering make for the Saloon Car series....Got some of them on the way too.

Cheers,

Garry

I didnt know you had already sent your subframe down, Did J.B give you a timeframe?

He also may have the longer wheel studs in stock so might be worth asking him.

Sean

[ghz28]

JB said he would be able to turn the K frame around in one day.

Didn't have any wheel studs when I rang, but is in the process of making some.

He is also going to chase up the tie rod ends that suit the relocated bottom mount, he moves each side out 20mm, which is a bit of a stretch for the stock rack ends/tie rod end combination.

gh

[nqcv8]

JB said he would be able to turn the K frame around in one day.

Didn't have any wheel studs when I rang, but is in the process of making some.

He is also going to chase up the tie rod ends that suit the relocated bottom mount, he moves each side out 20mm, which is a bit of a stretch for the stock rack ends/tie rod end combination.

gh

All I need to do is get my frame out now, seems as the bottom end will be ready to go for this weekend, so I might have to hold of sending my k-frame down as the one I was promised seems to have disapeared :headbang:

[GTS Listy]

What is the cost of doing this K frame mod. Going from wheel with a +48 to a +35 offset should fit in the guards still and it will be an extra 13mm in strut to tyre clearance. Wheels are quite cheap but I guess if the K frame mod is cheap then that would be a better option.

[nqcv8]

What is the cost of doing this K frame mod. Going from wheel with a +48 to a +35 offset should fit in the guards still and it will be an extra 13mm in strut to tyre clearance. Wheels are quite cheap but I guess if the K frame mod is cheap then that would be a better option.

It is very reasonable, allow $350 for the mod and around $250 for some longer wheel studs as we also run spacers.

Cheers

Sean

[2 cylinders shy]

Does someone have a picture/diagram of what needs/is done.
Trying to picture how it all comes together.
Any negatives (apart from the camber?)

[ghz28]

The three common methods of adding camber for Holden race cars are:

Strut tops with offset

Lower control arm pivot point mod to K Frame

Lower control arm, add an adjuster into it to allow lengthening the arm

A fourth and often frowned upon method is to bend the forged steel control arm, as if doing an alignment on a truck for instance.

I have chosen to give myself the choice between options 2 and 3 by getting a K Frame modified by BRE, as well as getting some brand new, bought today, lower control arms modified to allow the length between the pivot point and the Z bar point to be lengthened.

Both these methods are explained and photos are here:

http://www.camsmanual.com.au/archive/3category_Q107/0724_0701.pdf

Down in the appendices you will find the photos that show both mods I am talking about.

For both of these mods, you MAY require different tie rod ends, to account for the relocation of the ball joint up to 20mm further outboard than standard. I expect to be given the info on what ones to obtain, the person had forgotten which car they come from.

Once the ball joint is moved that far outboard, you will be able to stand your camber adjustment where the upright joins the hub, thus increasing the wheel to strut distance significantly.

In fact I have been told that with the 20mm offset in the K frame the setting will be somewhere around the equivalent of 1-2* positive to end up with 5* negative. But that is to be confirmed, either way, it will be a significant difference.

With the other alternative, the adjustable control arms, you can set your existing camber to a setting that clears the strut etc, then just wind the arm out enough to give the desired camber.

This way, the amount of change may only be a few mm rather than 20, so tie rod ends may still be usable....in my case should be as I already have 4* plus and only need a couple more for slicks.

That is my summary of the options from the recent research I have done.

Cheers,

Garry

Oh pricing...as mentioned, the k frame mod is $350 odd and only takes a day or so to turn around

The lower control arms, bought two today, about $160 each trade, genuine from Holden, and the engineering work is yet to be ascertained. Seems Croft are either no longer in business or trading under a different name so I am going to get these done by a company on the Gold Coast.

[35R]

Interesting Stuff! Btw i have heard that falcon tie rod ends are sometimes used (with the mods above).

[35R]

I got some photos of the last track day today. Just looking through a few, it looks like the rear setup in my car may now require some attention... Can you guys have a look at this photo (http://www.forrestfamily.com.au/duncan/track/wakefield/20080720/images/SS_0915_resized.jpg), what do you think? The attitude of the rear setup looks VERY different to the front. Any thoughts? What have you guys done for the rear setup? Higher res photo here (http://www.forrestfamily.com.au/duncan/track/wakefield/20080720/images/SS_0915.jpg). And yes, that is Erik driving off into the distance!

[ghz28]

It might just be the angle and maybe rear toe, but to me it looks like the front is pretty close to upright with that much attitude on, but the rear might have gone to positive.

Looking at the tyres should tell you, if the rears show contact down off the flat tread area, not enough camber.

If I think if it, I will take a photo or two of my slicks and show how with 4* negative the left front at QR wore away the outside shoulder to expose steel belting, while there is still 3mm plus of tread material left.....bugger.

But I swapped it around so that is now on the inside and informed opinion is that it will be fine to use. Hope so, they are not cheap things, hence you see my pursuit of 5.5 to 6* of camber for the left front.

gh

[nqcv8]

I got some photos of the last track day today. Just looking through a few, it looks like the rear setup in my car may now require some attention... Can you guys have a look at this photo (http://www.forrestfamily.com.au/duncan/track/wakefield/20080720/images/SS_0915_resized.jpg), what do you think? The attitude of the rear setup looks VERY different to the front. Any thoughts? What have you guys done for the rear setup? Higher res photo here (http://www.forrestfamily.com.au/duncan/track/wakefield/20080720/images/SS_0915.jpg). And yes, that is Erik driving off into the distance!

How much negative have you got on the rear? As Gary said hard to tell from that shot, but it hasnt rolled the tyres under the rim at a guess I would ay you have enough neg on the rear.

I was often chasing the back of my car, felt nervous and I stumbled onto a photo that showed the rear tyre was rolling under the rim on high load corners so I added another a degree of neg to the back and cured it.

[GTS Listy]

Lower wheel offset is another option too but was not mentioned above. +48 stock down to a +35 there is a good 13mm extra clearance and probably a good -1.5 or so degrees or more camber, if not more. Thinner tyres too get a few more mm but commodores may not like that much. Just have to replace the hub bearing a bit more often I have been told.

[nqcv8]

Lower wheel offset is another option too but was not mentioned above. +48 stock down to a +35 there is a good 13mm extra clearance and probably a good -1.5 or so degrees or more camber, if not more. Thinner tyres too get a few more mm but commodores may not like that much. Just have to replace the hub bearing a bit more often I have been told.

yes wheel bearings become a consumable with these camber settings.
I may be able to source some inexpensive hubs that have a timkin bearing installed much cheaper than the genuine items.

[ghz28]

yes wheel bearings become a consumable with these camber settings.
I may be able to source some inexpensive hubs that have a timkin bearing installed much cheaper than the genuine items.

That sounds good, I can see these bearings not living very long. Though having said that, the ute has had 4* or there about on it for the past 20,000 km and still not audible bearing noise.

Cheers,

Garry

[35R]

How much negative have you got on the rear? As Gary said hard to tell from that shot, but it hasnt rolled the tyres under the rim at a guess I would ay you have enough neg on the rear.

I was often chasing the back of my car, felt nervous and I stumbled onto a photo that showed the rear tyre was rolling under the rim on high load corners so I added another a degree of neg to the back and cured it.

Specs at the last alignment:

http://www.forrestfamily.com.au/duncan/track/misc/munro_corner_weight.jpg

[GTS Listy]

That is a great print out. I get a hand written note with
Toe
Camber
Caster

and a $45 fee down the bottom.

On topic -2 would be ok or max you would want, in my untrained opinion. Too much more my guess would be loosing too much rear grip exiting corners. Great for the corner grip but then it all goes up in smoke. Too much would be just wheel spin. Fronts you do not have this issue.

Mind you that photo of your car turning in on that last corner is awesome. You get allot of front end grip and great attidude on that car. If I did that with mine it would be understeer city.

[35R]

thanks guys i guess it might be just the angle in the photo. Would there by anything with the rear setup/camber where excessive lateral load just pushes the geometry around, or should it stay fixed?

[lautray]

My rear alignment settings are -1'35" each side & 2mm toe in total.

[2 cylinders shy]

what is your rear spring rate?

I know the rear has a tendancy to induce positive camber gain as the rear squats. Just a thaught?

Is the wheel tucked up in the gaurd much compared to stationary?

[lautray]

what is your rear spring rate?
Both Duncan & I run progressive 750lb rear springs (KHRL-46HHD). That 750lb is effectively halved at the wheel though... something about the commodores 2:1 rear suspension layout (or so I was told by a couple of suspension blokes).

[2 cylinders shy]

Thanks for that GHZ28.

Both Duncan & I run progressive 750lb rear springs (KHRL-46HHD). That 750lb is effectively halved at the wheel though... something about the commodores 2:1 rear suspension layout (or so I was told by a couple of suspension blokes).

That wont be it then.

[ghz28]

I have been asked to update my comments regarding the above two methods of increasing front camber, seeing as I commissioned both to be done back in August.

The K-frame was modified by Brock Race Engineering, but has not been fitted. The LCA mount point is moved out by 20mm and replacement tie rod and rack ends are used to take up the extra length required. This is how the V8 Race experience cars are done, but their mod is a little rougher than the work done by BRE.

Here are the part numbers as supplied by James Brock.

Tie rod ends RP526R
Rack ends RP936

I believe the RP stands for Repco Part, so they should be readily available from your local Repco store.

Brock Race Engineering charged $330 to do the mod, which upon reflection could have been done by any competent welder for less, but at least this is a CAMS approved mod for any that need CAMS approval etc.

Now, the adjustable lower control arms.......what a saga......this is the way I would prefer to go, as it allows incremental increases which can easily be adjusted on an alignment machine.

I bought brand new LCAs back in August and gave them to a local engineering shop to modify, as they used to do for Commodore Cup and Saloon Car classes, but they are still not finished. When I rang last week, the answer was.....I just need to turn the threads on them now.

So I will ring again this week, and see how I go. I have about six weeks until the next scheduled sprint meet so should be enough time to get it sorted.

Also this week the car goes in to have the full VT series supercar aero package fitted, front bar, side skirts, rear bar and wing along with carbon fibre door cards, brake ducts and a few other weight loss things. The stock front bar will also be fitted with quick releases so it can still easily be driven on the road legally. Hopefully it will be back before Christmas.

Cheers,

Garry

[2 cylinders shy]

I have been asked to update my comments regarding the above two methods of increasing front camber, seeing as I commissioned both to be done back in August.

The K-frame was modified by Brock Race Engineering, but has not been fitted. The LCA mount point is moved out by 20mm and replacement tie rod and rack ends are used to take up the extra length required. This is how the V8 Race experience cars are done, but their mod is a little rougher than the work done by BRE.

Here are the part numbers as supplied by James Brock.

Tie rod ends RP526R
Rack ends RP936

I believe the RP stands for Repco Part, so they should be readily available from your local Repco store.

Brock Race Engineering charged $330 to do the mod, which upon reflection could have been done by any competent welder for less, but at least this is a CAMS approved mod for any that need CAMS approval etc.

Now, the adjustable lower control arms.......what a saga......this is the way I would prefer to go, as it allows incremental increases which can easily be adjusted on an alignment machine.

I bought brand new LCAs back in August and gave them to a local engineering shop to modify, as they used to do for Commodore Cup and Saloon Car classes, but they are still not finished. When I rang last week, the answer was.....I just need to turn the threads on them now.

So I will ring again this week, and see how I go. I have about six weeks until the next scheduled sprint meet so should be enough time to get it sorted.

Also this week the car goes in to have the full VT series supercar aero package fitted, front bar, side skirts, rear bar and wing along with carbon fibre door cards, brake ducts and a few other weight loss things. The stock front bar will also be fitted with quick releases so it can still easily be driven on the road legally. Hopefully it will be back before Christmas.

Cheers,

Garry


Thanks, some good info there!

[235rwkw]

I just emailed PBR with an idea i had that would cover this.

What would be good to produce as an option is VT-VZ commodore front hubs with a wider hub for more offset from the strut.

That way many can fit wider tyres and rims (over 235 tyres) without fouling the strut.

So you would have the aftermarket rim and tyre market as well as all those involved with motor sport clubs. They can get more camber without fouling the struts. Options are limited currently.

this way you don't need unsafe spacers.

and use the rims you like if they don't have enough offset to go wider tyres.

[ghz28]

I just emailed PBR with an idea i had that would cover this.
this way you don't need unsafe spacers.
and use the rims you like if they don't have enough offset to go wider tyres.

Given the ultimately very small market, I doubt we will find a solution outside the motorsport fraternity. There was a solution developed years ago for the now defunct Aussiecars (sp) series. I recently saw one of those hubs, and the rights holder is involved in motorsport and has a very large fleet of track cars including many VT/VZ cars. It is his intention do redevelop the hub, with ABS rings and big bearings both for his own fleet and to offer it to motorsport people.

This solves two issues at once, the bearing is much more suited to handling the loads placed on it by increased camber, and the hub face is moved out by about 10mm as a result. Win win.

In the mean time, Harrop do offer a quite expensive bearing solution, and BRE K-frame mod provides an economical solution that also addresses the same issues at a much lower cost. By pushing the lower control arm out, you effectively need to stand the wheel up to have the desired 3-6 degrees of camber moving it away from the strut.

Garry

[GTS Listy]

Thing is BMW wheels have heaps of various offsets from +20 up to +45 onwards depending on the width to suit the commodore. Very easy option and the aftermarket wheels are cheap as. Average about $200 to $250 for 18s. Buy two fronts for now to get the camber and the backs a couple of months later.
Voodoo got a set with a very good offset for very cheap. Mine were $225 each but that was 18x9.

If those who dont want the trouble going into wider hubs, upgrading other suspenions mods to get camber for the budget racer BMW wheels would be a good option. Just somthing to consider

[.charged.]

I just emailed PBR with an idea i had that would cover this.



this way you don't need unsafe spacers.

and use the rims you like if they don't have enough offset to go wider tyres.

Why are spacers unsafe??

[choppo]

Why are spacers unsafe??
Charged... your not serious are you?? Or are you talking the 1-2mm spacers??

[GTS Listy]

Charged... your not serious are you?? Or are you talking the 1-2mm spacers??

Dare say there will be a debate on this.
I know plenty of people who use them and they are allowed in some racing catorgories. I used them once and did not have issues but found wheels to suit so no need anymore. I was told not too but had not choice (do what you have to do to race) Some say they are dangerous and dont recommend them. They are not road legal I know that much but race track plenty of people use them.
The right sort do make a difference. The ones with the hub ring in the centre of the spacer are the better type I was told. That way the wheel centre has something to sit on and not rely on just the studs if the spacer moves the wheel out so far that the centre of the wheel has nothing to sit on.

[.charged.]

Yep I run 10mm spacers on the front and know plenty of IP guys that run 25mm spacers some have the bolt on type and others run just flat spacers machined to suit the hub and wheel. I also change my peanut sized wheel bearings every 2 rounds and are repacked and inspected after every round and new studs every year so Im not too worried about a stud or wheel bearing failure. I only run them on the front due to clearence between caliper and wheel and the strut and tyre due too the lack of offset on my massive 5.5 in rim:shock: . If you keep your maintenence schedule up on the high load parts they are fine. If your running spacers on your car for a whole year without changing bearings etc... good luck
spacer and the dodgy grinding on the caliper
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/toyocharged/jfzfrontveiw800.jpg

clearance issue
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/toyocharged/IMGP0743600.jpg

[seldo]

Why are spacers unsafe??
http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/toyocharged/jfzfrontveiw800.jpg

[/QUOTE]Your own photo shows exactly why. It appears that your spacer is (a) not supported by the centre-bore at the hub bearing cap area, (b) is not even drilled to the correct size for the wheel studs ie there is slop, (c) appears to not sit centrally on the hub due to (a&b) (c) probably gives you "wheel balance" probs due to (c).
Any spacers should be a snug fit on the centre bore so that the loads are not taken by the studs and should also be machined to provide a supporting centre-bore shoulder to provide centralisation and support for the wheel.
Sorry to say this, but your photo appears to show a very very dodgy set-up. Glad it's you and not me. Please don't get me wrong - I'm not meaning to criticise, but it really looks dodgy. I wouldn't be worried about the caliper grinding, but that spacer is suss!

[35R]

25mm spacers, wow those are big!

[choppo]

Your own photo shows exactly why. It appears that your spacer is (a) not supported by the centre-bore at the hub bearing cap area, (b) is not even drilled to the correct size for the wheel studs ie there is slop, (c) appears to not sit centrally on the hub due to (a&b) (c) probably gives you "wheel balance" probs due to (c).
Any spacers should be a snug fit on the centre bore so that the loads are not taken by the studs and should also be machined to provide a supporting centre-bore shoulder to provide centralisation and support for the wheel.
Sorry to say this, but your photo appears to show a very very dodgy set-up. Glad it's you and not me. Please don't get me wrong - I'm not meaning to criticise, but it really looks dodgy. I wouldn't be worried about the caliper grinding, but that spacer is suss!

Exactly... fortunately the car is a lightweight and you have a real good preventitive maintenance program and larger dia studs.
As Seldo said, wheel studs are only there to clamp the wheel to the hub 'lightly', the centre bore lip takes all the load mating snugly in the wheel centre bore - the way it is now you are using the studs to take all the wheel load - something they were never designed to do.
At best, you need the outer and inner of any spacer to have the male and female centre bore lip replicated so the studs dont take the load.
For all the heavy V8 guys, beware :scared: you may get away with it, but its far from ideal.

BTW, when i got my car Log Book'ed, the inspector mentioned CAMS max spacer size is 5mm. Never bothered to check if that is correct, but thats direct from the horses mouth....

[2 cylinders shy]

I looked into getting spacers done. The V8Brutes use them so I spoke with James at BRE who are the supplier of the studs/spacers to the Race teams.
He said that they could do them and suggested welding the spacer to the hub if i was worried about the legality of the spacer (Because the spacer would then become part of the hub)

I then PM'd JusticeR8 and asked for some advice. What he said made a lot of sense to me and applies directly to what Toyocharged said.
You need to be carfule on what you listen to. Ie if it is a race car that does 20 laps per race 10 times a year it is different to a road car doing 20000km plus some track days.

If its a road car or daily driver dont get too radical. There is a lot more time in driving it better than getting more neg or a bigger tyre under the front.
Wise words in my opinion.

I wish Harrops front hub was more affordable, but as they say you have to pay to play.

[GTS Listy]

As mentioned on the road very illegal and your risk insurance issues as they are so easy to spot.

This is what I was talking about. Check post 8 as you will see the spacer has the hub ring as part of the spacer so support it there. It is a different type but the general idea is there

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1986905

[235rwkw]

As mentioned on the road very illegal and your risk insurance issues as they are so easy to spot.

This is what I was talking about. Check post 8 as you will see the spacer has the hub ring as part of the spacer so support it there. It is a different type but the general idea is there

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1986905

that would work for larger spacers. but if only wanting half that offset then the hub on the spacer wouldn't be possible as you have to clear the existing one first.

but are these legal for the road, probably not, but they are better.

[GTS Listy]

that would work for larger spacers. but if only wanting half that offset then the hub on the spacer wouldn't be possible as you have to clear the existing one first.

but are these legal for the road, probably not, but they are better.

No spacers or adapters are legal at all for road use. Only the small hub rings that make you aftermarket wheel fit properly on the hub are. i.e convert hub size from a commodore 69 to a BMW 72mm. Those small rings.

[choppo]

I looked into getting spacers done. The V8Brutes use them so I spoke with James at BRE who are the supplier of the studs/spacers to the Race teams.
He said that they could do them and suggested welding the spacer to the hub if i was worried about the legality of the spacer (Because the spacer would then become part of the hub)

I then PM'd JusticeR8 and asked for some advice. What he said made a lot of sense to me and applies directly to what Toyocharged said.

Wise words in my opinion.

I wish Harrops front hub was more affordable, but as they say you have to pay to play.

Pretty simple.. on the track there are a million things that can go wrong over and above the 'normal' things you get driving on the HW, or in traffic for that matter. Your std production car is set up for 'normal' things - albeit factory parts are 'over engineered'.
When you start pushing the factory components, they WILL fail... it's a matter of which part first. Is it your PS pump? (usually not fatal)... is it your brake pads (usually not fatal - on the tracks and speeds of a track day at least), is it the cooling system (usually not fatal), is it the .... get my drift?
Now, you decide to get a whole wheel and tyre, 1/4 of the entire contact of the vehicle on the road and simply 'put a spacer on it' that goes against every factory design parameter (and every safety margin GM designed into it) .... you are saying to GM and all their millions spent on designing that hub.... "i know better".
Im sure they would say the same back:)

[.charged.]

Chop and seldo the spacers are a bit dodgy and were a stop gap measure on a friday before a race meet after a brake upgrade and finding the caliper fouled, we are a bit pedantic about studs as a guy 3 years ago lost a wheel at the kink when the studs failed and Im pedantic about wheel bearings because they are tiny on the hub I run.The lightweight and the maintanence has probably saved me a wheel failure though. It doesnt matter choppo as after reading the tyres thread on the ip website have decided to upgrade from the 13in wheel--185/60/13 tyre to a 15in wheel--205/50/15 tyre and hopefully gain a sec or 2 a lap the cost difference is $940-1200 and I get out of the 70s:nilly: I will also be upgrading the strut from a ke25 toothpick strut to a mx85 cressida strut, much bigger strut, hub assembly and more track as well I will need to go flares but there is no other way around it plus I can run a bigger rotor from a 240mm to a 284mm and a rx7 ser 3 caliper instead of the JFZ caliper which has a bit of flex through the bridge.

Should look a bit like this with the te27 replica flares

http://www.monkys.jp/e/img/600CIMG2739.jpg

speaking of maintanence what sort of checklist do you guys run ?, I was a bit shocked when listy listed what his preperation is for a trackday especially as his is driven everyday.

http://www.trackchat.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=39971&postcount=74


Race prep to be done each race from now on.
Friday at the tyre place.
1. Get wheel alignment done
2. Change wheels to racing ones.

Saturday me
Fit the roll cage, side intrusion bars and remove all the stuff to make it go in.
Put the race seat in
Install the harness
Change the boot over and fit the big wing
Fit the brake ducts and inspect the pad wear, clean rotor slots front and rear.Empty the boot, take out spare, jack etc
Adjust the settings on the Teins to hard front and rear
Do a full fluids check
Over fill the oil by a bit
Check for any oil leaks under car
Do cold tyre pressure checks and adjust as required
Check wheels are tight

this is our checklist before every meet, usually takes a full day and sometimes longer if problems are found, its a ever evolving checklist also, if something fails on the track it gets added to the list

race car checklist 3rd state round 2007
Engine check
coolant level,hoses, engine mts,brackets, electrical wiring etc
check fuel lines, exhaust manifold cracks , bolts
change oil, filter.
check fault codes
fuel flow check

Gearbox
g/box bolts and mount, starter motor bolts-wiring
oil level
check tailshaft bolts
check unis for movement and cup rotation, check rear seal.

Diff
U bolts
shocks
oil level(overfill)
flange, unis, seal
axle, splines, bearings
exhaust hangers

Suspension
Struts- mounting bolts, rideheight collars, shock nut, camber tops
balljoints
sway bar
l/c arms
radius rods

Hubs
bearings
check spindle
studs

Brakes
bleed
check runout, cracking
mounting bolts
pads

Tyres
pressure, condition, rotate
tension

Scruitineering
kill switch
fire extinguisher,
lights
wipers
seat mounts
belts

Race day
charge dorian
cams logbook
cam lic
club membership
gearbag- helmet, gloves, socks, boots, suit, balaklava
fuel

[choppo]

speaking of maintanence what sort of checklist do you guys run ?

:yike: :yike: :yike: Ummmm.... a check list..... hmmmm...... I know :beer:

[choppo]

Should look a bit like this with the te27 replica flares

http://www.monkys.jp/e/img/600CIMG2739.jpg


BTW - Nice!!!!

[.charged.]

:yike: :yike: :yike: Ummmm.... a check list..... hmmmm...... I know :beer:

It wasn't my idea but the older brothers(control freak but very very organised),nothing worse than going to a race meet and having your gear bag at home plus I have a memory like a gold fish:bash:.

I dont really want flares but I will be upgrading to turbo power next year and not sure if 185/60/13 and 240mm rotor will work well with double the HP:eek:

Chop have you put your EOI for the FOSC event at Bathurst yet, get it in early:werd:

http://www.fosc.com.au/Pages/Bathurst/2009/Bathurst%20General%20EOI.htm

[choppo]

It wasn't my idea but the older brothers(control freak but very very organised),nothing worse than going to a race meet and having your gear bag at home plus I have a memory like a gold fish.
Nothing wrong with that! - wish i was that organised. Im going to have to get much more organised next year. Im actually going to 'advertise' for some pit crew next year
Chop have you put your EOI for the FOSC event at Bathurst yet, get it in early

Im probably the only one that will admit it, but.... im too chicken:giveup: . I cant go to Wakefield without going too hard and coming off. Bathurst is a concrete canyon!
An the concept of 'going a bit slower'... well that just doesn't compute with me:lol:

[.charged.]

Im actually going to 'advertise' for some pit crew next year

Im probably the only one that will admit it, but.... im too chicken:giveup: . I cant go to Wakefield without going too hard and coming off. Bathurst is a concrete canyon!
An the concept of 'going a bit slower'... well that just doesn't compute with me:lol:


Thats the beauty of a 4 car team, we have our own pitcrew, although I have a couple of guys that help out race days which always helps.

On the bathurst thing mate, I had only raced at Mallala and when I went to PI, I was in shock after the first practice session was going very slow 2.25 but as I did more sessions got my head round the high speed corners and got down to a 1.58 in the end. I just took it slowly and had the best race weekend ever and PI will be on the racing calender from now on.

Bathurst is the same the nephews were completley in awe as on the friday it was pissing down and they were completley intimidated. They qualified well down and took it easy and found 3 time in every race and in the end were running top 5 and top 10. They said the experience was the best ever and if the could only race once a year Bathurst would be it. Plus we dont know how long we will be able to race at Bathurst. If I get in I will be very taking it very easy at first and give no fark for were I come as long as I can find time in every race and get to dice with a few cars I will be more than happy. Dont get me wrong I will be shitting myself before qualifying and race 1 but thats what its all about

Plus what will be better than saying to your mates you have raced at Bathurst.:dance:

[choppo]

Plus what will be better than saying to your mates you have raced at Bathurst.:dance:

Forget bragging about the times you got, for me it would be being able to say "i came back from Bathurst with a straight car":pray:
Don't worry, i have a careful eye on the thread.... im sure ill be there:)

[seldo]

Im probably the only one that will admit it, but.... im too chicken:giveup: . I cant go to Wakefield without going too hard and coming off. Bathurst is a concrete canyon!
An the concept of 'going a bit slower'... well that just doesn't compute with me:lol: Once you've raced at Bathurst - all the others are just chicken-shit. Have a go!!!!

[GTS Listy]

Good to have a checklist like that charged. I drive the GTS everyday and if half f those items were at fault I would know about it over the month of driving it to work or looking for problems changing wheels.
It is a streeter and racer so bit by bit. It still gets full log book services every 6 months as per any street car but gets some special treadment by the mechanic once a quarter with a oil change.
If something goes wrong or starts to wear out my mechanic would know about it before I would. Half the things that are on their way out he does on his own but I trust him.
That is a great list to have for reference for later when I start taking care of maintence myself.

BTW. Bathurst I would do it no question.