Garry's track VT SS [Archive] - TrackChat - Any Car! Any Track!

ghz28

08-06-2008, 10:05 PM

To which spec was it built? Out of interest, how come the rear of the cage is welded to the rear wheel arch rather than the chassis?

Not trying to be funny, but being a monocoque, what do you call the chassis?

We were planning on mounting the rear of the cage to the top of the shock tower, but on analysis, there was considered to be virtually zero cornering loads at that point so the wheel arch was considered to be a suitable anchorage point.

Built to one of the latest CAMS specs for sedan cars in national championships, excluding FIA events, no bolts through the welded in plates....go figure that one.....only the padding has to be changed to SFI for full approval. But Queensland Transport required that basic padding be fitted prior to the engineer signing off on it.

Garry

ghz28

08-06-2008, 10:11 PM

Dayum Garry that looks sensational. Please kepe us up-to-date. How did you keep it road legal? Was it much of a hassle, who did the cage work?

It was no hassle at all for me, I said I wanted a legal welded in cage to current CAMS spec and the builder made that and provided full engineering certification as part of the process. I just have to send off the paperwork to CAMS for the logbook and QLD tpt for the rego amendment to caged two seater sedan. Insurance may be another issue, I see Shannons getting a call as I am sure my current one will not like it too much.

Will PM you with the info on maker etc...

Cheers,

Garry

choppo

08-06-2008, 10:22 PM

Not trying to be funny, but being a monocoque, what do you call the chassis?

We were planning on mounting the rear of the cage to the top of the shock tower, but on analysis, there was considered to be virtually zero cornering loads at that point so the wheel arch was considered to be a suitable anchorage point.

Built to one of the latest CAMS specs for sedan cars in national championships, excluding FIA events, no bolts through the welded in plates....go figure that one.....only the padding has to be changed to SFI for full approval. But Queensland Transport required that basic padding be fitted prior to the engineer signing off on it.

Garry

Chassis - where the the big bastard steel sections go down the rear of the car (not in the wheel arches).
To which latest CAMS spec for sedan cars in national championships was it built?

ghz28

08-06-2008, 10:36 PM

Chassis - where the the big bastard steel sections go down the rear of the car (not in the wheel arches).
To which latest CAMS spec for sedan cars in national championships was it built?

You are asking questions to which I don't know the answer.

I went to a recognised CAMS ROPS builder and asked for a ROPS system to the current regulations. We went online, got the latest approved drawings and specs, and decided on a design that still used full cross bracing (my choice) rather than the newer triangulated (lighter) design.

The mounting points also were to some extent controlled by my requirement for onboard jacks.

Garry

choppo

08-06-2008, 11:14 PM

You are asking questions to which I don't know the answer.

I went to a recognised CAMS ROPS builder and asked for a ROPS system to the current regulations. We went online, got the latest approved drawings and specs, and decided on a design that still used full cross bracing (my choice) rather than the newer triangulated (lighter) design.

The mounting points also were to some extent controlled by my requirement for onboard jacks.

Garry
Thats all that matters - if its CAMS (vs. ANDRA) approved, all happy! Still wouldn't mind knowing which class your running in though.

ghz28

08-06-2008, 11:50 PM

Thats all that matters - if its CAMS (vs. ANDRA) approved, all happy! Still wouldn't mind knowing which class your running in though.

OK, wondered why the third degree..... ;)

At this stage, I am only doing sprints and open track days, learning to drive basically. I am currently using a VZ Ute as my track car, but decided that it was time to get a dedicated car that didn't owe me so much, and had inbuilt safety featurer, ROPS, fire system etc.

I am basically looking at competing in AASA club,state and national level events, but seeing as they do not have any specific vehicle requirements, decided to go with established standards and build the car to CAMS spec for the level of competition that I may enter into in the future. I do not anticipate that I will ever enter into any specific class of CAMS competition, I am too old basically! But want to have fun at whatever level I decide to become involved.

Garry

ps, I am off to Lakeside for a track day in the ute in 6 hours so better get some shut eye. Just finished packing it, after a big weekend at the Winternationals at Willowbank.

lautray

09-06-2008, 12:25 AM

ghz28

09-06-2008, 09:15 PM

Very impressive Garry. One serious cage there. Perhaps Qld transport requirements to meet on-road legalities differ to our NSW ones regarding cages? Interesting whether it would pass down here?

Have fun at Lakeside.

Yeah thanks Eric, was a big day at Lakeside, two pretty substantial crashes in the rain affected conditions, thankfully none of our group. Was too wet to run slicks until a bit too late in the afternoon, then the big crash occurred which closed down the day 45 minutes early. But so be it.

Re the cage, yes QLD can be confusing, basically it is the engineer who has the say as to whether you get legal or not. QT just rubber stamp his decision. But, if defected, then it can be challenged in court and the engineer has to justify his decision before a court. The guy who did mine, was confident that it was not a problem, and has been signing off on road race cars for years without problem.

So, if I get a defect notice, then I just relay that to the engineer and he has to defend his certification in court if necessary.

The car will see very little road time, and if on the road probably going to or from an event. I am chasing up now on conditional rego for tarmac rally type vehicles with QT, that may be the out, lots of emissions and noise exemptions etc.

gh

FatBoy

14-06-2008, 01:00 PM

Nice work mate, good stuff...

I've got a caged VK in the works for Improved Production, but am thinking as VT / VX's get cheaper i might just bite the bullet and do one of them instead...

Keep us informed of your progress with the build... :)

Cheers,
Paul...

ghz28

14-06-2008, 02:13 PM

Hi Paul, that was sort of my thoughts too, VT 2 is the first of the LS1 and so much easier to get decent power and reliability than the 5L engined cars.

Car was measured up for suspension on Wednesday, alloy strut tops were delivered on Friday, so work on the struts and shocks can start now.

Extinguishers are in, one on the passenger floor the other on the transmission tunnel in the rear compartment. A temporary fit while waiting for the firebomb to arrive.

Race seat brackets are being made, should be ready by next Tuesday, so then it will be down to waiting for the suspension and go play.

Garry

Nice work mate, good stuff...

I've got a caged VK in the works for Improved Production, but am thinking as VT / VX's get cheaper i might just bite the bullet and do one of them instead...

Keep us informed of your progress with the build... :)

Cheers,
Paul...

FatBoy

14-06-2008, 02:47 PM

I was actually thinking L98 powered VK to be honest Garry, but the I.P rules limit "early" (pre-VL) Commodores to a maximum 225/50/16 tyre - that'd make things challenging... :)

I'm starting to prefer the idea of an L98 VTII with a VX update, there aren't many around in Improved Production here in NSW (2 actually, a VX & a VZ - but both run the "old" 308 based Holden motors) but there are apparently a few in the build. Choppo might be able to tell us more... :stick: :p

What are you doing for brakes / suspension at this stage ??

Is there any advantage going to a later model (VX2) rear end suspension wise ??

Cheers,
Paul...

ghz28

14-06-2008, 03:10 PM

Well the L98 in a VK would certainly be an Improvement on Production thats for sure. But harnessing that through 225/50s would be really difficult. So I see your dilemna.

At this stage, I am not building the car for racing, I am a bit too old to start that in my mid 50s I think, so will concentrate on sprints, hillclimbs and general track days. I am building the car to CAMS spec as far as safety items go, cage, extinguishers, window net, harnesses etc. but will just register it as a club car. Being Brisbane based, QR and Lakeside are not CAMS tracks, but AASA, so there is no real spec for cars to run in their events, apart for basic safety, but I would like to have a go at the Queensland 500 in October, which is a club level team endurance race, we have three cars and drivers so far, but can have up to 6 of each. AASA is basically racecar/roadcar and capacity classes in each.

Brakes, I am using Harrop 343/343 combo with either Pagid or Ferodo 3000+ pads. Suspension is being built by Murray Coote, full coilover package for the front, same as my ute has but with remote canisters this time to make adjustment easier. It is specifically being made with the view to allowing 6 degrees of neg camber as it is my preference to run on slicks at the track now and 4 degrees just is not enough. The experts tell me around 5.5 is where I need to be.

Rear will be the same idea, remote canister shocks, with a spring similar to what is used in GTP Holdens.

Not sure whether the VX2 toe link suspension would be any real benefit, I have fitted a four piece camber/toe kit anyway, so alignment should not be an issue. I guess time will tell.

Cheers,

Garry

FatBoy

14-06-2008, 04:35 PM

You're never too old Garry... :thumbs:

Sounds like a pretty good plan so far, going all out on the engine or just keeping it mild ?? What about the sump ?? Darren (Justice) has mentioned the LS1's are a bit iffy in that department once you get some decent tyres and suspension on the car...

Sorry about all the questions mate, just doing some homework... :)

BTW - A couple of mates run Proflex shocks done by Murray Coote - and their cars are State and National title winners - they are some quality gear... :drool:

Cheers,
Paul...

Desertws6

14-06-2008, 04:44 PM

Garry,

Wonderful job with the cage there mate!! She sure looks plenty strong there!
Track days can be done with plenty of peace of mind. :thumbs:

Cheers,
Steve

ghz28

15-06-2008, 08:16 AM

Steve, yes that was the aim, safety above all else at this stage.

ps might just be in Phoenix for the Nascar in November this year if I can put it all together. Probably just for the Friday truck race though.

Re the engine, initially I am going to put rod bolts in it, and an L76 sump on it, this coming week. The idea is to learn to drive the car with moderate power as I have been driving an auto ute for track days so far. Gotta learn where 3 and 4 are in a manual box as well as brake and turn now....lol My ute has not had any oil issues with the L76 and an extra litre of oil, with cornering Gs over 1.5 so that seems to be an easy first fix.

I have an L76 that is destined to become the engine in this car, either 6l or as a 402, that decision is still to be made. Or, and this would be easier, bomb the 5.7, add big cam and the top end off the L76. This would reduce the effort of changing harnesses, reluctor wheels etc, and then stroke the L76 bottom end and put it in the ute......win win

Garry

VooDoo

15-06-2008, 09:26 AM

I know this might be a big ask but any chace you can include a rough cost for the things your doing Garry? I know others are keen to follow and getting an idea of what some of these things cost and even where to go to get them would be a great resource.

btw, the top end on the L76 wont work on a bombed 5.7L as you need a 4" bore for the heads and the valves hit on a 3.9" bore.

ghz28

16-06-2008, 09:17 AM

Thanks Stu,

well there goes yet another of my brilliant ideas down the gurgler. Unless I get the 5.7 bored I guess.

Or just make the 5.7 383 and live with that for a while.

Cheers,

Garry

ps... pricing.....now you want me to KNOW what it is costing not what I want to think it will cost.....lol

ok, will list some parts prices up.

VooDoo

16-06-2008, 12:53 PM

I have some 5.7 heads (setup for FI) i'd swap for the L76 heads for my stroker .....

hehe

ghz28

05-07-2008, 06:45 PM

OK, some photos of the suspension going in and the droop of the suspension
is shown.

Ride height of the finished install. Still 20mm above minimum
road legal of 100mm so can still go lower while remaining
registered.
217
The suspension on the bench
218
This one shows the camber adjusting ecentrics that
replace the slotted hole and adjusting nut. Can not vibrate
loose and change settings.
219
This shot shows the rear springs too, very short, very stiff.
220
This is the front suspension at full droop.....air jack friendly
221

ghz28

05-07-2008, 07:04 PM

OK, just a few more photos....

This shows the rear suspension at full droop. Again, airjack
friendly as they only extend 260mm down from the floor. The
big hole that was cut to feed the canisters into the boot has
been grommeted for now, will make two piece screw on metal covers at
some later stage with grommet just for the hose size.
222
Almost full side on shot showing ride height
223
Under bonnet, 200k old LS1 and some nice bright and
shiny remote adjustment canisters attached to the strut
brace. You can also see the Bilstein full metal strut tops
with spherical bearings....nice and quiet when new at least.
224
Semi closeup of the front right height, white numbers are measurements
taken of ride height and camber setting for semi-comps. For slicks another
1.5+ of negative will be added on Monday. First run on slicks is Tuesday.
225
Front view and down passenger side.
226

35R

05-07-2008, 07:19 PM

looks awesome Garry. So are you still targeting -5.5*? what size tyres on the front?

ghz28

05-07-2008, 07:28 PM

looks awesome Garry. So are you still targeting -5.5*? what size tyres on the front?

Yep still aiming for 5.5 to 6 degrees for the slicks. With the supplied ecentrics, only managed 4.5 on the left and 3.8 on the right, which would be fine for QR and Lakeside which both turn right, and semi-slicks.

I run 235/40x18 all round with the Yokos, but it will be 245s when I go to RE55s. I still have 9-12mm to the strut at this stage.

The slicks I use are 240/640x 18s.

I have ordered some longer Harrop wheel studs so I can space the wheels out a bit to fill the guard, good thing about all that camber, and a spring that sits above the tyre level, is almost no limit on camber. You might notice in the photos that the ecentric mounts are 12mm further out from the strut than the standard struts, so I already have a 15mm increase in front track.

Front springs are 170mm long 750lb/in and the rears are 175mm free height and 1000lb/in. Ride is surprisingly acceptable on the road. Tomorrow, if it is fine, will be taking the car on a 450 odd km shakedown run on a cruise with the LS1 mob up here in Brissy. Have already driven 230k on the suspension since fitting it and I can live with it....the seats for a full day, not so sure...lol

Garry

lautray

05-07-2008, 07:39 PM

Nice work there Garry.

I may have missed it, but what are your rear springs? King HHD's?

ghz28

05-07-2008, 07:51 PM

Nice work there Garry.

I may have missed it, but what are your rear springs? King HHD's?

KHRL 1000 is the part number for the rears. These are the first pair made with their new X5K wire though.

Fronts are KST 750.

Garry

choppo

10-07-2008, 06:51 PM

"This one shows the camber adjusting ecentrics that
replace the slotted hole and adjusting nut. Can not vibrate
loose and change settings."

Gaz - this is the best idea - how/who did these?
Out of all suspension mods ive seen for Comm's the weak link is the camber adjustment - normally just a friction fit & how hard you can crank off a long bar to tighten the clevis pins.... ask Darren (Justice) what this cost to have them slip and fold a strut under the car........ Ive also had them slip 1st time out at the last Dutton in Vic - ruined the whole weekend. Dont under-estimate the significance of that one component (if it works). Will be interested to see how that goes!

ghz28

10-07-2008, 08:35 PM

My suspension is done by Murray Coote Automotive, and that is the way he has been doing his coilovers since time immemorial. He primarily does rally suspension....Neil Bates....Ford WRC....Kenya Safari teams.....and top end circuit stuff that is rebranded under a few names. And a lot of offroad race suspension, so the solidity of the camber settings is essential. I have seen coilovers in 70s rally cars that he did with the same principle, just it has been refined to how you see it in my setup.

He is not cheap, about line ball with other top shelf stuff from Ohlins and Proflex etc. but being local small changes and repairs are easy for me.

My ute has the same stuff, but not 4 way adjustable like these, just three way.

cheers,

Garry

"This one shows the camber adjusting ecentrics that
replace the slotted hole and adjusting nut. Can not vibrate
loose and change settings."

Gaz - this is the best idea - how/who did these?
Out of all suspension mods ive seen for Comm's the weak link is the camber adjustment - normally just a friction fit & how hard you can crank off a long bar to tighten the clevis pins.... ask Darren (Justice) what this cost to have them slip and fold a strut under the car........ Ive also had them slip 1st time out at the last Dutton in Vic - ruined the whole weekend. Dont under-estimate the significance of that one component (if it works). Will be interested to see how that goes!

ghz28

23-08-2008, 05:37 PM

Well I finally got my airjacks fitted and plumbed (temporarily) today. And at least I got it so they all go down and come back up on command ;)

Unfortunately I have not yet got a nitrogen bottle from BOC or whoever so can not actually lift the car.....needs about 300 psi to achieve 3600lb of lift....but will be picking one up on Monday. Already have the regulator and hose ready to go. With 120 psi from the compressor today there was signs of "lift" so all is good so far.

I will be using nitrogen for the jacks, as air regulators are not available readily for pressures above 200 psi, nitrogen ones go to over 1000 psi, I got a 550 psi one. At least that explains why I see the V8 teams wasting nitrogen on their jacks ;)

And now I will be able to fill my tyres with nitrogen too, an added benefit I guess.

Some photos were taken today, and I will tidy up the plumbing tomorrow and take more then put some photos up.

Hopefully by monday afternoon I will have photos of the car high and dry on its built in jacks....and do my first 4 wheels in the air at once fitting of track tyres ready for Thursday.

Cheers,

Garry

seldo

23-08-2008, 11:29 PM

The car's coming along nicely Garry. Murray does great work and is an extra nice bloke as well.

ghz28

25-08-2008, 09:38 PM

OK, well the air jacks are in, there is an issue with the rear jacks needing to be recessed into the floor a little, hanging too low for my liking, but the fronts are just right.

380-400 psi is needed to raise my 3750lb (with me in it and a full tank of fuel) monstrosity into the air with Supercar ease, so I have resorted to Nitrogen cylinder, reg and now, heavy duty hydraulic hose for the feed from the bottle to the in-car plumbing.

This photo shows two of the jack assemblies prior to fitment into the vehicle. The fittings and ball valves are to control the flow of nitrogen and allow the vehicle to be autonomous once jacked up, shut the ball cock and the car stays up on its own. Each jack weighs about 1.4 kg.

237

This is the front right jack, just behind the front wheel arch. Makes a nice jacking point now doesn't it.....lol

238
This shot shows the rear right jack, with T-piece attached, waiting for the hardline to be attached.
239
This photo shows the car jacked up at the rear cradle mount point for insertion of both right hand jacks into their tubes. With the welded in cage, the car is rigid enough that jack it up anywhere along its side, and the whole car comes up, and ALL the doors, boot and bonnet still open and shut as per normal.
240
This shows the front right jack in position, behind the accelerator position, and tucked neatly right up out of the way in the kick panel area.

241

More photos and info in next post....

gh

ghz28

25-08-2008, 09:49 PM

OK, here we are with the car raised on the jacks for the first time today.

Had the pressure set a bit low at first, and it struggled to get up, found out that nearly 400 psi is needed to get it jumping up V8 Supercar like. And it has to be released pretty hard too, or the jacks come down in random order.

243

Side view of the car sitting up, just asking for the wheels to be changed. At this stage the safety stands are not fitted to the jacks as I was checking for leaks in the system. Found one, tightened the fitting, and all was well for 20 minutes just sitting there. Put the safety stands in, let it down to settle on them, and it is staying that way overnight so I can do a water pump swap tomorrow....things you find two days before a track day.
244

Just another shot of the car in the garage on the jacks.
245
Looking along under the car, sitting autonomously on the air jacks after half an hour. Line is disconnected, so it has no significant leaks. I did find later in the day that after about 2 hours it settles about 20mm onto the safeties.....but for wheel/tyre changes not needed, but for working under/around the car, they are a must.
246

Car goes in next Monday to have the rear jacks recessed up into the cabin about 40mm, and I still have some work to do tidying up the pipework and mounting the receiver on a bulkhead adaptor.

Cheers,

Garry

GTS Listy

26-08-2008, 08:02 AM

That is awesome Garry. Looks great. Dare say some people will be taking a second look at the circuit if you jack it up on them. I certainly would.
There would be a whole lot of WTF.

Scotty

26-08-2008, 09:43 AM

Awesome...

I want that....

Do you have the ability to direct the gas to front, side etc? (not sure there is a need, just curious).

seldo

26-08-2008, 09:53 AM

very professional Garry - I like it :)

.charged.

26-08-2008, 01:41 PM

very nice gary:drool: , if you dont mind me asking what does a system like that cost ?

ghz28

26-08-2008, 06:40 PM

OK, thanks for the comments guys, will try to answer everyone's questions.

I am hoping that I can live up to the "image" the car portrays. And if I can't, well who cares...... ;)

At this stage, the jacks are connected in series, but I am going to set it up so there are two feeds, one to each side, and see if that is any better.

As this is not for pit stops, but more for working on the car or changing from slicks to streets etc, I can't see the need for a complex and expensive switching mechanism. But, a split, so that one feed could be disconnected could allow left/right or front/rear....something to think about. Halving the N2 consumption is worth considering.

The jacks cost $2200 for the set of 4, with $66 for the set of 4 tubes to be welded into the car, then fittings and hose added another $140 odd.

When the cage was being built, it added an extra day of labour to the bill, plus the cost of steel etc, which came to $700 odd from memory.

My car weighs in at 1630 kg at the moment, full of fuel, oil etc but no driver.

I am hoping to get that down another 100 kg or so eventually when things like the dash, airbags, a/c and heater and associated stuff is removed. But for now, the driver is the handicap, not the weight.

Cheers,

Garry

lautray

26-08-2008, 07:21 PM

Great setup & well thought out.

fatas

26-08-2008, 08:27 PM

ghz28

26-08-2008, 08:56 PM

if you race in the rain dont remove the heater you may need it when the whole car steams up not that much weight saved and you have extra coolant in the system if things get hot just my 2c worth ;)

im glad ive still got a heater and a/c in my VP makes sitting in the pits on a hot/ cold day way better :weirdo: ok i am soft :moon:

I was going to get a heated front screen, but as you say, side windows can also fog up......not that it rains up here in Queensland any more. ;) So advice noted.....

A/C, well yes, it is hot up here, all year, and sitting in pit lane awaiting permission to go play, in a race suit, it gets hot, that is why the a/c has not been removed so far......during summer I just leave it on, tune has the compressor deactivated from 50% throttle anyway, so the cooling starts automatically on the cool down lap....just as nature intended.....

Garry

ghz28

05-09-2008, 02:26 PM

Hey Mods,

Think this thread should really be in the rides section?

Garry

35R

05-09-2008, 02:53 PM

Done!.............

Justin

05-09-2008, 10:50 PM

Your car is inspiring Garry, thanks for a great write-up.

Are we going to see you at Lakeside on the 21st?

Aeron

06-09-2008, 08:22 AM

Now THAT is a roll cage. Makes mine look like bits from an old trampoline :lol:

http://www.britishschool.be/uploads/imanager/sports/trampoline/trampoline.gif

ghz28

18-12-2008, 09:05 AM

Been a while and a few things have changed so time for an update.

In the local Timeattack series (private track day program at QR) I won the NA V8 Street category for 2008 in my trusty old automatic Thunder ute, and with just the one outing on the last day, managed to come third in NA V8 Race category in the VT due to the lap times it posted. So a good introductory year to the world of lap sprints.

On the VT, well it now has a cammed L76 and new gearbox in it, 96 more rwhp and 172 lb/ft more peak torque than the stock LS1 it replaced. Caused me some issues with my braking points, as it is significantly quicker in acceleration, like 19km/h faster down the front straight at QR now and 13 km/h quicker out of turn 2 which bodes well for higher terminal speed on the back straight, and reduced times on the national circuit.

First outing only saw about 0.5 seconds off my times for the Clubman circuit and no change for the Sprint.....due to missing braking points....there are no markers on the Sprint circuit and because I was about 16k faster into the crossover, kept overshooting the turn in point....only got 5 laps.

During the off season, now to 17 January, the car is having some more weight taken out of it, electric windows, carbon fibre door trims installed, and getting a full VT supercar quick change aero package fitted. Like Aeron's, front and rear done with 4 quick change bolts through the guards, side skirts, genuine VT/VX era brake ducting kit from Les Small, full rear wing and front undertray. Undertray and wing are mainly in an attempt to assist with corner speed through turns 1 and 2 which translates into important back straight speed. Need the quick change front though because the splitter sits just 42mm off the ground at my normal ride height...can see that being lifted a tad. So the normal front will go on to drive to and from the track....or I also have a "road" version of the VT aero front which could also be used....sits about 80mm off the road.

Some more photos when I get it back from the workshop in January.

Cheers,

Garry

I have also added new in-car video cameras.

DaveHAT

18-12-2008, 02:26 PM

Wow ... this thing really looks the shit Gary.

Airjacks look brilliant not to mention extremely handy.

A great read ... shall be following with interest to see the final product.

:cheers:

VooDoo

18-12-2008, 06:05 PM

Dont have another set of the les small brake ducts do you? Maybe some photo's ??

Got something here for you too....

GTS Listy

18-12-2008, 08:18 PM

Great stuff Gary. That is really turning into som car. Should be a quicky once you sort out those finer points. We done have braking points up here either but you learn the useal side points to hammer tha ankers and hope like hell.

Great stuff and can not wait for the photos

ghz28

21-12-2008, 12:53 PM

Dont have another set of the les small brake ducts do you? Maybe some photo's ??

Got something here for you too....

Yes I have a couple of photos of the ducts Stu, they are made from very thin fibreglass and moulded to weave around the various suspension parts.

I will post them up later today.

Garry

ghz28

21-12-2008, 01:42 PM

Well Friday morning I was given the opportunity of about an hour of runs along the available length of the main runway at the local airbase. This is a 10,000 ft runway, but there are works in progress at one end and it was NOTAM out of action for the entire day.

We were given a measured 2000m from start to the traps, with 1000m of overrun available.

And anyone who says a Holden V8 pulls hard at 270 odd is kidding themselves. It took what seemed for ever to get from 270 to 280 ,4.6 seconds according to my datalogger.

Start procedure was a slow rolling start in second gear to avoid wheelspin in the debris associated with the works, and the very slippery newly painted piano key runway markings at the southern end.
Gear changes were lazy, not a drag race and no sense hurting anything, had to do many consecutive runs, all in the name of science of course.

This is the data from my quickest run, second from last of the day, which netted 282.48 km/h through the traps at 6940 rpm, limiter is set to 7000 rpm.

Speed Time Interval
50 10.649
101 13.56 2.91 (6500 in second)
163 18.67 5.11 (7000 rpm in third)
210 24.97 6.30 (6920 rpm in fourth)
220 27.76 2.79 (gear change)
230 29.68 1.92
240 31.73 2.05
250 34.06 2.33
260 36.69 2.63
270 40.16 3.47
280 44.76 4.60
282.5 46.25 1.49

ps the times to 230 and 240 are corrected from the data published elsewhere.
I couldn't find my glasses last night and got those two wrong.

Under 100 km/h the car is accelerating at nearly 20km/h per second,
100-160 more than 12 km/h/sec, 160-220 6.6 km/h/sec, and slowing to 2.2 km/h/sec from 270-280 km/h.

So you can see that although yes it was still accelerating at 280+ km/h, but it ran out of revs at 284.5, on the 7000 rpm limiter in 5th a couple of hundred metres past the traps, it felt like slow motion after the rush up through the lower to mid 200s. A change to sixth at that speed on other runs resulted in no perceptible increase in the couple of seconds I had before needing to start braking. Travelling at near 80m/sec that 1000 m goes away very quickly.

To put it all into perspective from the RAAF point, 280 km/h is about the landing and takeoff speed of just about all aircraft.

Gearbox is a stock MM6 by the way, so fifth is .74 and final ratio 3.91.
Later models with .84 fifth and 3.4 gearing would feel about the same
but maybe pull to 290 odd at 7000. Late models with 3.91 likely to stop
around 256 and then pull very slowly from there in sixth.

I have uploaded an 8MB low res version of the in-car from the quick pass to photobucket. Hoping the link will work......

http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/ghawgood/VT%20Track%20car/th_VTin-car282-48kphpass.jpg (http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/ghawgood/VT%20Track%20car/?action=view&current=VTin-car282-48kphpass.flv)

As you can see the car was rock steady at that speed, no steering input needed, just the correction away from the centreline towards the timing gate marked by those two cones 4 metres apart. They seem very close together as you approach them at speed. That was with the stock VT aero package by the way, normal front bumper and rear wing. Only modification was to remove the two small grilles, they try to pop out at speeds above 200 km/h as the air build up in the front of the car is greater than what can flow through the radiator/intake etc.

Garry

nirvana

21-12-2008, 04:04 PM

nice write up will definitely keep track of your build.

:cheers:

lautray

22-12-2008, 04:56 AM

That's plenty fast Garry. Going well :bravo: .

nqcv8

22-12-2008, 07:50 AM

Awesome stuff Gaz... shame I couldnt have joined you that day due to work commitments.. Would have been interesting to see what the VX could have done :).

HSV271

22-12-2008, 09:49 AM

And anyone who says a Holden V8 pulls hard at 270 odd is kidding themselves. It took what seemed for ever to get from 270 to 280 ,4.6 seconds according to my datalogger.

To quote a famous (or is that infamous celebrity)... You just need more "POWERRRRRRR" and it will pull hard from 270 onwards. :laugh:

:bow: Gary, I have been keeping an eye on your thread and I got to admit, you have done a fan-bloody-tastic job on the car. Keep it up. :thumbs:

GTS Listy

22-12-2008, 01:31 PM

Those times are plenty quick. Makes the runs I used to do in the stock GTS seem pretty slow. Mind you the roads were somewhat rougher looking at the video.
Good stuff.

GTS Listy

22-12-2008, 01:32 PM

Those times are plenty quick. Makes the runs I used to do in the stock GTS seem pretty slow. The roads I used up here seemed somewhat rougher looking at the video compared to my video of the 0 to 250km/h run.
Good stuff.

savvy

22-12-2008, 07:43 PM

Nice car and write up!

Is using the runway a perk of the job?, how hard was it to get permission?, can you get your trackchat buddies a run on there?:chuckle:

ghz28

22-12-2008, 10:23 PM

savvy

22-12-2008, 10:50 PM

Thanks guys for your compliments, the car is a pleasure to drive and a credit to the people who have assisted and contributed.

No, access to the runway is not a perk of the job, this really was just work related duty believe it or not. Yeah my work is a bit weird.

Cheers,

Garry

Well if it's part of work, your a lucky fellow!

Now i'm very curious, any clues to what part of your work related duties the runs were covering, don't tell me you work on speed camera's or something:eyes:

ghz28

22-12-2008, 11:45 PM

don't tell me you work on speed camera's or something:eyes:

or something......

gh

ghz28

22-12-2008, 11:46 PM

[QUOTE=HSV271;41426]To quote a famous (or is that infamous celebrity)... You just need more "POWERRRRRRR" and it will pull hard from 270 onwards.QUOTE]

Yeah a snail or two, or a PD blower, or even N2O would do it, but it is the NA stocko commodores I am referring to....see it all the time on "other" sites.

gh

ghz28

26-01-2009, 07:12 PM

Hi All,

well I finally got my car back from the people doing the fitting of the aero kit and some internal work. Sealing off the boot area so I can do a proper fuel system, cell and pumps, and fibreglass door trims etc.

Took it out to QR on Saturday for the General Practice day on Saturday, and made a couple of PBs on the National circuit. 1:22.795 on slicks and 1:24.050
on RE55 semi slicks. 4.2 seconds quicker on slicks and 2.8 quicker on semis.

Still waiting for the side skirts to be painted, but the front splitter, rear bumper and bootlid/wing are done.

Speed on the back straight has increased from 201 km/h to 214.x km/h (mainly due to increased exit speed out of turn 2) and speed on the front straight remains at 201, but braking a little later as it turns in better with the package on. Drag from the wing is no doubt having an effect, but the apex speed at turn 1 is up 12 km/h vs no rear wing.

Rear wing is set at the median position at the moment, and I am back out at QR tomorrow for a Timeattack sprints day, will be running the shorter sprint circuit, so will try the wing with more angle of attack for the slower track at some stage and see if there is any effect with a mediocre driver. lol

A few photos of the car as it now stands....

ps....yes the splitter does scrape the ground under maximum braking into turns 3 and 6. They tell me that is a good thing......expensive but good....lol

gh

275

276

277

278

279

35R

26-01-2009, 07:37 PM

wow that's awesome, great progress with the PB's too :driving:

GTS Listy

26-01-2009, 08:42 PM

Good work Garry. Looks great. Any engine shots or the new interior work they did or is that off limits for now.

Those wings are fun to play with. From experiance I was down 15km/h on the main straight on full tilt. (230 v 215) Lots of drag but really nice under very heavy brakeing. I could not really tell much difference in the corners.

Well done on the PB and getting the slicks happening.

ghz28

26-01-2009, 11:05 PM

Hi Listy,

no nothing secret squirrel about my build up......that I would tell you about anyways...........lol..........I am off to QR again tomorrow and will take some photos out there.

Nothing of interest really with the engine, looks like a stocko with extractors under the bonnet......but will put some interior pics up after tomorrow.

On the wing, yeah it has 9 discrete settings, the one it is on I have been told was the QR setting for the early 2000s, but it could be set more agressive for the slower/shorter circuits to improve rear traction on the slower corners.

Anyway, something new to play with and occupy my time between track sessions.

With a pro driver in it on Saturday it was out mixing it with GT3 Cup cars, so looks like the owner has to step up a notch or two......lol

Cheers,

Garry

Good work Garry. Looks great. Any engine shots or the new interior work they did or is that off limits for now.

Those wings are fun to play with. From experiance I was down 15km/h on the main straight on full tilt. (230 v 215) Lots of drag but really nice under very heavy brakeing. I could not really tell much difference in the corners.

Well done on the PB and getting the slicks happening.

lautray

28-01-2009, 04:57 PM

Love the aero package Garry. Can you attribute any gain in time to the front splitter?

choppo

28-01-2009, 07:44 PM

Hi Gary,

any chance you could post an update on the air jacks??? Specifically;

1. Is the N2 still the go?
2. How many up/down/up/down do you get out of what size cylinder?? (just approx i know).. leading too the next question...
3. What PSI is a new filled N2 tank? I assume once it approaches 400PSI you need to go get another and the remaining 400PSI is just returned/ wasted?
4. Dumb question probably, but CIG/ gas suppliers dont happen to do 'top ups' do they?
5. Would it be worth getting smaller bottles due to the above or bigger the better?? whats more cost effective do you think?

Would appreciate your views/experiences on the above if possible?

tks
Steve

ghz28

28-01-2009, 07:56 PM

seat of the pants.....the car was noticably more stable through the bumpy turns 1 and 2, especially the exits of those two corners.

Also it was less taily approaching the apex of turn 1 so I was able to increase my entry speed by a few km/h on the day.

Above differences is what I was told would be the positives, with the rear wing providing downforce to the rear for the approach into 1, and the front splitter settling the front on the way out of both those two corners.

From the data there was a noticable decrease in transit time of turns 1 and 2. My splits are done from old 0.5g points, but I don't change their position so as to keep my data relative.

Garry

Love the aero package Garry. Can you attribute any gain in time to the front splitter?

ghz28

28-01-2009, 08:10 PM

See below.....quotes

Hi Gary,

any chance you could post an update on the air jacks??? Specifically;

1. Is the N2 still the go?

For me yes, I bought a bloody expensive N2 high pressure regulator, but have since found out that I could have got an air one too. Slightly more expensive, but the gas is slightly cheaper.

2. How many up/down/up/down do you get out of what size cylinder?? (just approx i know).. leading too the next question...

I am using an E cylinder, nominally 3.4 m3, but with N2 you only get 3.1, ripped off again. I haven't counted, but I am thinking I get 15 lifts using 420 odd psi, but I can use as low as 375 which is more laborious in lifting but would save money I guess. For the convenience....I really don't care. I use E so I can move it myself relatively easily. The big one would be better value I think.

3. What PSI is a new filled N2 tank? I assume once it approaches 400PSI you need to go get another and the remaining 400PSI is just returned/ wasted?

Cylinder starts out at close to 2000 psi. At this stage, yes it is just wasted.....unless I fill my tyres with it like last time, however I found no advantage in using N2 in tyres so will only fill the tyres when a bottle gets low. I will fill my new slicks though with N2 as they tell me I might notice a difference with brand new tyres rather than old used ones. I doubt it....but the big teams continue to use N2 so there must be something in it.

4. Dumb question probably, but CIG/ gas suppliers dont happen to do 'top ups' do they?

No, exchange cylinders only....and they just vent them anyway.
A very wasteful process all in all.

5. Would it be worth getting smaller bottles due to the above or bigger the better?? whats more cost effective do you think?

Now this is a question you should raise on the LS1 forum, I am sure there will be lots of experts to answer it.......lol

My thinking is it would not make a difference, gas is only paid for in m3, it isn't cheaper per m3 in a D cylinder than an E, well not with Air Liquide anyway. Cylinder rental is also proportional, at least for off the street small customers.

Would appreciate your views/experiences on the above if possible?

tks
Steve

choppo

28-01-2009, 08:43 PM

Thanks Gary, the 15 times is a bit of a worry for me - glad i asked now. I was toying with getting a hoist at home then thought, why not go the airjacks - use them at home and the track. At a V8SC ride day, i saw them raising the cars quite high to work under by using a stacking system under the jacks. Jack once, place stand under, lower jacks and re-jack on the stand etc etc... they did this 2 or 3 times to get the car up to a good height. BUT that would obviously consume a bottle pretty quick :sigh: I guess thats why they have hundreds of N2 bottles stacked behind the garage.....
The cost of filling etc is live-able, but it's gonna be a pain for me always going to get the local gas supplier to refill the tanks.
I dont suppose during your initial research you found a 'low pressure' system or similar that would work @ lower PSI therefore give more bottle life??

GTS Listy

28-01-2009, 09:48 PM

Garry I am trying to say this without hijacking the thread so here goes

I was at the motor vehicle registry getting the annual inspction on the GTS and they had these small trolly jacks with small airbags on them. They were about 30cm at the base and the airbag was like one on a car with airbag suspension. They slide it under as it is on a low trollet jack type base and press the button to infate the airbag. They had two and put on on each jacking point and up the who side went. Pretty spun out bit of gear. Small light and worked great

I can not find anything on any web sites on this set up. Looked very handy though and fitted under my car easy.

ghz28

28-01-2009, 09:51 PM

Yeah to those guys using 20-30 dollars worth of gas in a day is insignificant in their budget, and from what I saw at QR for the last event, V8 SC themselves supply maybe 200 large cylinders for the weekend anyway.

For the you and me of amateur motorsport......it can be significant. But the convenience at the track is definitely worth it.

I have been told that the Bilstein reps....forget who they are in Melbourne.....have jacks that have a larger diameter gas chamber....something like 3.5 inches diameter.....and can be used with normal 150 psi compressor output.

Not sure how heavy your car is, mine is 3710 lb with me in it, I am 175lb with suit on....and that is with 60 litres in the tank. So my car is about 1600kg racing weight without me in it. Now that the a/c has failed, I might take the opportunity to remove it and strip the dash down to bare essentials, that should remove another 80 odd kg.

From there I don't know how to get any significant weight reduction.

And jack pressure and hence gas consumption is directly related to vehicle mass.

gh

Thanks Gary, the 15 times is a bit of a worry for me - glad i asked now. I was toying with getting a hoist at home then thought, why not go the airjacks - use them at home and the track. At a V8SC ride day, i saw them raising the cars quite high to work under by using a stacking system under the jacks. Jack once, place stand under, lower jacks and re-jack on the stand etc etc... they did this 2 or 3 times to get the car up to a good height. BUT that would obviously consume a bottle pretty quick :sigh: I guess thats why they have hundreds of N2 bottles stacked behind the garage.....
The cost of filling etc is live-able, but it's gonna be a pain for me always going to get the local gas supplier to refill the tanks.
I dont suppose during your initial research you found a 'low pressure' system or similar that would work @ lower PSI therefore give more bottle life??

ghz28

28-01-2009, 09:56 PM

Yeah I have seen those, in fact was offered some that a workshop owning friend refuses to use.

Good for what those guys want I suppose, to have a bit of a look and not spend any time under the vehicle. Not many people trust them for putting human parts under.

The other common use is on 4 post hoists, at alignment places, where they just want a quick lift and the vehicle can not fall on you so to speak.

Oh and their normal failure mode is fully inflated...so that can be a bit of a piss off too.

Be interesting to hear other's input on these jacks, they really are not popular in workshops in Australia.

gh

Garry I am trying to say this without hijacking the thread so here goes

I was at the motor vehicle registry getting the annual inspction on the GTS and they had these small trolly jacks with small airbags on them. They were about 30cm at the base and the airbag was like one on a car with airbag suspension. They slide it under as it is on a low trollet jack type base and press the button to infate the airbag. They had two and put on on each jacking point and up the who side went. Pretty spun out bit of gear. Small light and worked great

I can not find anything on any web sites on this set up. Looked very handy though and fitted under my car easy.

ghz28

29-01-2009, 12:03 AM

This was at the Timeattack day at QR on Tuesday this week.

Passenger rides are allocated a short timeframe, and my wife, Robyn, was the passenger (well the designated one, I became one too).

It was raining, a sudden downpour shower as we get here. I was taking it easy just feeling the track for traction....overestimated obviously.

I left a bit of leadup in so you can see how sedately I was driving....

http://s86.photobucket.com/albums/k88/ghawgood/VT%20Track%20car/?action=view&current=TAspin.flv

Learned that there was Zero traction once it started to turn.....

ps...did manage to drive out of there and completed the ride session, albeit about 30 seconds behind schedule

gh

choppo

29-01-2009, 06:56 AM

Yeah to those guys using 20-30 dollars worth of gas in a day is insignificant in their budget, and from what I saw at QR for the last event, V8 SC themselves supply maybe 200 large cylinders for the weekend anyway.

For the you and me of amateur motorsport......it can be significant. But the convenience at the track is definitely worth it.

I have been told that the Bilstein reps....forget who they are in Melbourne.....have jacks that have a larger diameter gas chamber....something like 3.5 inches diameter.....and can be used with normal 150 psi compressor output.

Not sure how heavy your car is, mine is 3710 lb with me in it, I am 175lb with suit on....and that is with 60 litres in the tank. So my car is about 1600kg racing weight without me in it. Now that the a/c has failed, I might take the opportunity to remove it and strip the dash down to bare essentials, that should remove another 80 odd kg.

From there I don't know how to get any significant weight reduction.

And jack pressure and hence gas consumption is directly related to vehicle mass.

gh

Your weight is the same as mine AND ive already removed all the airbox etc etc. I have a regulations that says min weight is 14xxkg... but there is no way in hell i can get down that low with the restrictions on what you can/ cannot remove. At 14xxkg the cars would be rockets!!!!
I might try chasing up those 'Bilstein' jacks on low pressure - if in Melbourne it may be Quadrant... ill give them a call and see what i can dig up....

GTS Listy

29-01-2009, 08:59 AM

FatBoy

01-02-2009, 11:50 AM

ghz28

01-02-2009, 12:40 PM

Choppo: How did you go with Quadrant and the jacks?

Listy: I use two different in-car systems now, Race Recall and Chase Cam. both have their advantages and disadvantages. If I was getting one again now, would probably be the Chase Cam.

Fatboy: Funny you should mention quick times and lack of cage. It was an off caused by someone else just in front of me going off in an AWD car and coming straight back on that made up my mind about having a caged car. It is not rollovers etc that worry me, it is those sideways excursions that can so easily end in a wall or other solid obstacle that worry me.

Garry

ghz28

01-02-2009, 12:45 PM

Hi all....

on Friday the adjustable lower front control arms were fitted. Wheel alignment has not been done yet as I will have to change the rack ends and tie rod ends as suggested by James Brock.

For anyone interested, if you extend your lower control arms by any method, including relocating the pivot point outwards the old part numbers are:

<deleted at request of ghz28; wrong part numbers>
<deleted at request of ghz28; wrong part numbers>

(refer to http://www.trackchat.com.au/forum/showpost.php?p=43244&postcount=85)

this may only be one side, and the numbers have been superseded by TRW ones now but the Repco parts people will be able to cross reference them.

Either that or add an adjustable length element to the rack end, you need about 20mm overall extra length on each side.

Photos next time the car is up in the air.

Garry

GTS Listy

01-02-2009, 02:00 PM

I hear you about the cage thing. It is a pain putting it in and removing but I guess in the long term worth doing. The Big HQ crash and my mate loosing it in the wall in his S2000 was my (the misses really) turning point. He has a full race preped S2000 he bought of my105. Same bloke I got my wing off. Should be fun trying to catch him this season but so far we are on par until he pushes it.

Maybe me proving that it is not really that hard to put in and remove a cage for street duties might help people change their minds.
The subframe gear and sturt braces would not be any harm either

Good info and thanks for the part numbers Gary

.charged.

01-02-2009, 02:28 PM

The Big HQ crash and my mate loosing it in the wall in his S2000 was my (the misses really) turning point. He has a full race preped S2000 he bought of my105. Same bloke I got my wing off. Should be fun trying to catch him this season but so far we are on par until he pushes it.

It isnt this S2000 listy, I saw the car at Glendambo after the lad and his dad picked it up from Tassie... looked like a good thing

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10316

http://www.my105.com.au/private_images/9728/992008100004393.jpg

GTS Listy

01-02-2009, 02:36 PM

It isnt this S2000 listy, I saw the car at Glendambo after the lad and his dad picked it up from Tassie... looked like a good thing

http://www.my105.com.au/classified.asp?id=10316

http://www.my105.com.au/private_images/9728/992008100004393.jpg

That is the one I believe and looking at all the bits on it pretty good value. There is that s2000, my car and the lotus all about the same lap times. There is a IP Vl pretty high spec that is up here new this year in our class but I am not sure what that is capable of. Either way should be fun.

ghz28

04-02-2009, 09:06 PM

OK well the below referenced part numbers have proven to no longer be valid, may have been for the VN Saloon cars, but do not work with VT on cars. Also, mid VT (not series 1 or 2 either which would make it easy) the rack ends/tie rod ends changed from a coarse thread to a fine thread. My car has the course thread, which is common to VX Clubsports too, everything else seems to have moved to the fine thread.

What I ended up doing was extending my original rack ends, by buying replacement rack ends and chopping them up so that when welded back together they are 25mm longer. The weld was then re-inforced by a 50mm length of Chrome-moly .12" wall tube. This will be much stronger than stock, and was done such that the added length occurs within the area covered by the rack boot, so is not obvious.

The joint was all TIG welded and inspected by a very experienced chassis builder.

Hoping to get the alignment done either Thursday or Friday, and head out to the General Practice day at QR on Saturday morning.

ps....Mods.....if you could.....edit my post with the part numbers in it and notate reason for deleting them and refer to this post number.

Hi all....

on Friday the adjustable lower front control arms were fitted. Wheel alignment has not been done yet as I will have to change the rack ends and tie rod ends as suggested by James Brock.

For anyone interested, if you extend your lower control arms by any method, including relocating the pivot point outwards the old part numbers are:

RP526R
RP936

Aeron

15-02-2009, 04:41 PM

Get well soon mate!! :(

ghz28

10-03-2009, 07:22 PM

Hi All,

I haven't said anything about it publicly until now because the incident has been under investigation. I was assisted off the track and the onboard video from my car has been the primary evidence.

On 11 Feb 2009 my blue VT was written off in an incident at QR. It hit a wall head on at 147 km/h according to my data logger. It is flat to the front opening of the front wheel arches, well just a little further back actually as the front wheels were jammed up against the rear of the wheel arch.

When the drivetrain was pushed back, the hose to the clutch slave cylinder ruptured and a small but damaging fire was the result. Main fire damage is to electric harnesses, injectors and associated wiring.

I was pretty seriously injured, mainly internal and soft tissue injuries, with no broken bones, and only spent one night in hospital. My left foot was trapped under the clutch pedal, but luckily they are fitted with a frangible mount and I was able to exit the car unassisted and jump up on the wall and watch my car burning. The only long term injury is likely to be the G force damage to the retina of my right eye, looks like I will have a blind spot in the middle of that eye for life. It is small and not a real problem.

The safety cage, and 6 point harness certainly saved my life, even with the extensive frontal damage, all the doors opened and closed and the gaps even remain correct. The passenger cell of the car is pretty much intact, despite the engine dislodging the firewall as it came back. Oh and there was no glass breakage, apart for light bulbs, despite the huge impact, shows how intact the passenger compartment remained.

So, a lucky one for me, and in true spirit, I have another car being prepared right now, suspension etc from the old car has been transferred over, and it is off tomorrow to have a roll cage put in....same as the last one.....its now truly a proven design.

Now the "educational" bit.

I would never again do even sprint type meets again without a cage and 6 point 3" harness. On the harness, it was this that although it saved my life which caused most of my injuries. With nowhere else to go my body was forced into it and the 5/6 straps and buckle caused the major injuries in my genital and bladder areas. Without them, I would most likely have ended up under the dash in a ball, so probably a small price to pay. My new harness has "open wheeler" style 5/6 straps which attach differently and bear on the inner thigh rather than the genitals......food for thought gents.....it bloody hurts.

I did not have a HANS device at the time of this incident, but on my trip to the US next month will be getting a new Simpson helmet and HANS device.

At this stage there are no photos to make public, but I have many and have watched the in-car video from both cameras lots of times. My wife has asked that they not be made public for the time being. She is still coming to terms with my heart attacks and this crash all within the past 4 months, but supports my return to motorsport as long as I take all reasonable precautions safety wise....cage, harness, new helmet, HANS etc etc.

So, standby for photos of the old car....I will put up some soon....and lots of the new one as it progresses through its development.

At this stage, my planned return to sprints is April 2, so just a few weeks away....the car should be ready.....hope I am.

Thanks for all your support during my initial build, and I know I can look forward to the same during this one and my return to funsville....QR and Lakeside.

Cheers,

Garry

Delft Maloo

10-03-2009, 07:55 PM

Iv been saving my 1000th post for something special and you surely make the grade, all i can say is FUUUUUCK you are one lucky guy and im so glad to hear all is pretty much well and back on track.

GTS Listy

10-03-2009, 08:00 PM

Thanks for putting that up Gary. Good to see you are back on your feet and getting into racing again.
That safety gear sounds like it worked a treat.

Looking forward to the photos

35R

10-03-2009, 08:38 PM

Jesus H. Glad you are "ok" and food for thought for all of us, even guys who do the sprints.

lautray

10-03-2009, 10:35 PM

Glad you're ok mate :).

ova400

10-03-2009, 11:54 PM

Fukc me, I heard there was an incident involving two cars but didn't realise it was this serious or that it involved yourself. I'm glad your injuries are not life threatening and although bad you obviously are still able to get back out there. I wish you all the best with your recovery and the new build.

This has certainly put things in perspective about WAS and SAS and I am curious to see if anything results from this.

Again all the best,

Dave

seldo

11-03-2009, 12:44 AM

Jeez Garry - first I've heard of this!
Glad to hear that you are ok! I just hope that the injuries to the family jewels won't force you into a choir! ;)
It sure shows that you can't wind the clock back to install the safety gear - you must do it NOW!
Good to hear that you are building a new car to continue the good work! Cheers!

choppo

11-03-2009, 05:19 AM

Man, all the best with everything... damn!....
You've certainly got me thinking on the harness bit though....
What was the 'old' harness and what is the 'new' one. How do they attach differently down low? Do they still attached at a central point or is there an off-set somehow to allow more 'room' down there?

ghz28

11-03-2009, 08:24 PM

Hi guys, and thanks heaps for the well wishes.

I am OK, and champing at the bit to get back on the track so don't worry about that.....and yes the family jewels are still a bit of a mess, after a month and they say it may take another couple of months to return to normal.
The new car....red Choppo....is finally off to the cage maker tomorrow. There were some delays with new suspension parts from Holden. But all new bits sourced in the end. I don't go with used important parts.

Re the harness change, if you look at single seater/formula type harnesses, you will see that the 5/6 straps actually attach to the shoulder straps, and are drawn sideways via a guide on the lap straps, then route down under the seat. This provides LOTS of room down there. There is an alternative which uses a T shaped 5/6 strap attachment to the normal release, but after my experience I am going for the "wider" option. I am getting two Simpson formula style harness in the US next month, any passenger deserves the same consideration I think.

Cheers,

Garry

HSV271

12-03-2009, 05:20 PM

Shit Garry... OMFG!!! :shock::faint:

I have only just read this and I am glad you are on the mend.
Good to see that all the safety gear did it's job, even though the harness did some damage to the family jewls.

Scotty

13-03-2009, 02:11 PM

GTS Listy

13-03-2009, 03:48 PM

Gary... thanks for sharing the story and your ideas.

Might need to give some further thought to what Nick and I do to the SS.

The challenges of keeping a street legal car that you enjoy on the track....

I look forward to hearing of your return to the track, and seeing pics of the new build.

Its possible but not totally easy.
Just change seats, bolt in a roll cage, roll cage net, attach harnesses, change tyres and adjust suspention (that is the bit I like). About 4 hours work each way is the bad bit though.

FatBoy

13-03-2009, 03:55 PM

Hadn't seen this until now, glad you are ok mate, sounds like a decent hit !

That's what amazes me about guys running some decent laptimes in streeters - if they come off, an accident you'd normally walk away from could be life threatening.

Put a cage in, a decent harness, and preferably a Hans device to go with it. What price do you put on your life / being able to walk / earn a living etc ?

Cheers,
Paul...

FatBoy

13-03-2009, 04:21 PM

Fark, just realised i said the same thing about six weeks ago on the previous page... LOL !

Can someone edit the post above and remove my comments ?

Cheers,
Paul....

ghz28

13-03-2009, 06:35 PM

Gary... thanks for sharing the story and your ideas.

Might need to give some further thought to what Nick and I do to the SS.

The challenges of keeping a street legal car that you enjoy on the track....

I look forward to hearing of your return to the track, and seeing pics of the new build.

What ever you do make sure of the harness and cage bit. I can't emphasise that enough now, especially once you start getting quick.

I have to admit that Queensland has amongst the most relaxed rules for vehicle modifications and my car was, and the new one will be, fully mod plated and legal on the street.

Cheers,

Garry

2 cylinders shy

16-03-2009, 07:58 AM

Wow lucky your ok :pray:
Good luck with the new build, hopefully you never need to "test" the new cage.

That's what amazes me about guys running some decent laptimes in streeters - if they come off, an accident you'd normally walk away from could be life threatening.

Put a cage in, a decent harness, and preferably a Hans device to go with it. What price do you put on your life / being able to walk / earn a living etc ?

Cheers,
Paul...

That is the problem a cage on the street is a dangerous thing (smashing your skull into even a padded bar in a mild accident), am i right?
But a cage on the track is a life saver.

So if you track your streeter like most of us plebs your dambed if you do and dambed if you don't.

Sorry to hijack your thread Garry. Its just that you have brought up a important issue.

ghz28

16-03-2009, 09:10 AM

Regarding the cage in a streeter, my opinion now is that if it is properly designed, ie it remains very close to the A pillar and roof line (the Bond bolt in cages are quite low from what I have seen), you have airbags and wear your seat belt a properly padded cage need increase the danger in low to moderate crashes.

The padding material is important though, for the street, where no helmet is worn, the soft padding should be used anywhere your head could come in contact with the cage. Also remember that a lap/sash belt and normal seat will allow you to move around in the car a lot more than if you are using even a lap/sash with a properly fitting race seat.

When wearing a helmet, head contact areas should have the more rigid SFI padding, and I had that on the A pillar of my cage and the airbags disabled for track use. My helmet just slightly contacted that padding, enough to put a mark on the helmet that just wiped off......I was well strapped in obviously.

From what I have been told about my cage, the only design that the expert would like to change is the height and number of side intrusion bars.....these are the most critical bars....but to remain street legal in Qld I can not change it at this stage. My new trailer has been delivered so the strict legality of the car is not so important now, but I do want to keep it registered so I can participate in the classes of events I want to.....and I don't think too many sprinters would object to a more comprehensive than "street legal" cage.

Cheers,

Garry

[QUOTE=2 cylinders shy;44437]That is the problem a cage on the street is a dangerous thing (smashing your skull into even a padded bar in a mild accident), am i right?
But a cage on the track is a life saver.

So if you track your streeter like most of us plebs your dambed if you do and dambed if you don't. /[QUOTE]

ghz28

29-03-2009, 06:33 PM

Well this weekend I finished the stripping out of the needed parts of the old car, apart for the aero package from the rear section. That should happen tomorrow.

The new car is back from the cage builders, and is now in the workshop awaiting mechanical and electrical finishing off. There is not that much to do, gearbox and tailshaft, one brake hose and bleed, seats and harnesses to be fitted along with some interior trim etc.

Hoping to get an alignment done by Wednesday afternoon and run it on Thursday at the Timeattack meet, basically with standard R8 aero kit, just for a shakedown and try to get some important series points.

No photos yet, but I guess I should start a new thread with some of the new car pretty soon.

Cheers,

Garry

GTS Listy

05-04-2009, 08:01 PM

Great to catch up Gary. Your car is looking good and sweet sound. Sorry I had to go when there was some spanners to turn to get the shifter sorted. Honest I had to go and not a excuse.

Alteast I kept you company with the running around so I did a little bit. You have a very nice stable of cars too.

ghz28

05-04-2009, 09:20 PM

No worries,

thanks for the company and see you in August....

cheers,

Garry

ghz28

13-04-2009, 08:42 PM

Well finally I have got some photos to show you all of the results of my crash into the wall at QR.

Looks like only 5 photos per message so starting here.

Garry

287

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291

ghz28

13-04-2009, 08:45 PM

292

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ghz28

13-04-2009, 08:46 PM

297

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ghz28

13-04-2009, 08:47 PM

302

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DaveHAT

13-04-2009, 09:09 PM

Holy Flirking Schnit Garry :shock:

It sure went in hard & headbutted the preverbial.

I presume the airbags have been disconnected?

Given that impact, good to hear you've come out of it reasonably ok.

Now the salvage commences?

Cheers. :)

lautray

13-04-2009, 09:23 PM

What a shunt :shock: :. Can you shed any more light on what actually happened/caused the incident?

HSV271

13-04-2009, 10:04 PM

I'm speechless... :shock: :shock:

Its amazing if you look at one shot the car is at least 2ft shorter and looks like the firewall and tramsmission tunnel have been pushed back into the cabin. :yike: :faint:

seldo

14-04-2009, 03:33 AM

That looks nasty Garry! A big hit! Glad to hear that you are now ok and look forward to seeing some photos of the new car.

ova400

14-04-2009, 08:29 AM

That really shows how big the hit was, it also shows how good your cage is and who ever built it deserves a massive kudos cause not many would come out of such a hit without being bent up. You did well to only recieve the injuries you did. All the best with the new car, can't wait to see some pics of it.

Duffman

15-04-2009, 05:52 PM

Jeez... that's a fair whack. Good to see the cage did it's job well.

All the suspension, air jacks etc salvageable?

ghz28

15-04-2009, 06:45 PM

Hi all,

Yes it was a big hit, and the photos don't show some of the detail that shows just how well a Holden shell holds up to this sort of thing and does a lot to protect the occupants. The collision with the wall didn't feel all that hard, so I guess the crumple zone bits did their job in diminishing the impact. And of course the cage did its bit and made sure that the interior remained pretty well intact. You can see from the side-on shots that even the door gaps remained pretty well unchanged, and no glass at all broke. The body shell is peeled back over the cage reinforcements for the front air jacks though.

Yes the engine pushed the firewall into the cabin area, slightly, and the gear stick tore through the floor pan as it was pushed back about 200mm. The internals of the RipShift are bent, as well as the handle, hoping to get replacement parts from GMM sometime in the future. For the time being I have a Billet Shifter in as a replacement.

The tailshaft also came up through the floor in the rear passenger compartment area.

Reference the way the cage stood up, yes my misfortune has helped a couple of locals decide to go with the same manufacturer, and he is really cheap compared to others in Brisbane. And the proof of the design and welding etc can clearly be seen in mine, it has not noticably deformed in any way.

There are currently some rumblings around town about Qld Tpt enacting legislation to ban completely rollcages of any type in road registered cars....unless they compete in National Level Rallies. This of course is completely unworkable as rally cars must be registered, as they transport on public roads between competitive stages, and safety cages are mandatory to comply with CAMS requirements for competitors, so there is open and obvious conflict there.

I know that now I will be assisting in any way I can with keeping the option open for legitimate competition cars that need to be registered to be able to have basic 6 point cages fitted, at least to the level that mine is/was. There is little doubt that I would not have survived without it and the harness.

gh

dareya

15-04-2009, 08:11 PM

Hi Garry,

I notice you run an IQ3 and I do too so if you would like to swap track maps or help each other with data I am happy to help where I can.

I run a production car in the irace series if you cant be bothered with Cams come and race with us.
www.irace.net.au

Cheers

John

dareya

15-04-2009, 08:25 PM

Sorry mate didnt see the Pictures till later,thats not good.

Cheers

Justin

17-04-2009, 06:59 PM

wag

20-04-2009, 01:27 PM

Hi all,

Reference the way the cage stood up, yes my misfortune has helped a couple of locals decide to go with the same manufacturer, and he is really cheap compared to others in Brisbane. And the proof of the design and welding etc can clearly be seen in mine, it has not noticably deformed in any way.

gh

Who did the cage?

Justin

20-04-2009, 03:58 PM

Nathan at http://www.motorsportsolutionsaustralia.com

BigJim

20-04-2009, 05:02 PM

Jeez Garry, that's huge. And as you know, I see a lot of accidents.

I'm one of the guys who has taken Garrys unfortunate mishap on board and am arranging the same cage builder to do my car in the next month or so. Mine (basic 6 point cage) won't initially have the same cross-bracing in the rear as Garrys, but will have the roof cross-bracing done (it can't be done later), side intrusion bars and behind the seat/harness bar at a minimum.

Enjoy your trip mate! See you in a few weeks :)

I also have taken a hard look at Garrys car and the accident and Nathan from MSA recieved my HSV GTO today to build a full cage. Hope it should be done by Friday. Then its your car after mine Justin. Just dont leave stripping the complete interior till the day before and mounting a seat like i did. :D

Justin

20-04-2009, 05:04 PM

Haha, nah man mine starts tomorrow. Got the stereo installers 'un-installing' my a/v system. And then simply not reassembling my car :D That should cover most of it.

VooDoo

20-04-2009, 06:41 PM

I also have taken a hard look at Garrys car and the accident and Nathan from MSA recieved my HSV GTO today to build a full cage. Hope it should be done by Friday. Then its your car after mine Justin. Just dont leave stripping the complete interior till the day before and mounting a seat like i did. :D

Jim, did you get any photo's of your car stripped? Im thinking of doing the GTO too but want to see how they go about putting the cage into a monaro.

BigJim

20-04-2009, 08:34 PM

Jim, did you get any photo's of your car stripped? Im thinking of doing the GTO too but want to see how they go about putting the cage into a monaro.

I didnt take any pics, ran out of time yesterday. They are not pretty when stripped out thats for sure. I stripped everything out. Hood lining must go to. I should have mine back end of week or maybe early next week if you want to look at it. I then have to paint the inside to make it look 1/2 decent.

Bloody hell its loud inside with no hood lining, no carpets, no trims or anything.

You still need that steel work organised. Ive been trying to get there but ive been flat out, everytime i try to head over your way something holds me up. :doh:

ova400

20-04-2009, 08:58 PM

whats the rough cost for a similar cage, I think this is the same guy I spoke to around the end of last year but I never got a price.

VooDoo

20-04-2009, 09:44 PM

I didnt take any pics, ran out of time yesterday. They are not pretty when stripped out thats for sure. I stripped everything out. Hood lining must go to. I should have mine back end of week or maybe early next week if you want to look at it. I then have to paint the inside to make it look 1/2 decent.

Bloody hell its loud inside with no hood lining, no carpets, no trims or anything.

You still need that steel work organised. Ive been trying to get there but ive been flat out, everytime i try to head over your way something holds me up. :doh:

Steel work is done mate :D

Gimme a yell when the car is done and ill come have a look. I want to put a lot of the interior back in after the cage is done so need to see how hard thats going to be.