Track - Data Logging

[Scotty]

Thought it would be good to get peoples methods/tools for data logging at the track.
what do people use for lap times, revs, speed, GPS, Gforces etc?

How do you find the information?

I know on the Evo we race in the AMC, the Motec provides the bulk of this info including steering angle, which is a nice function.

My goal is to be able to assess how nick and I drive the SS and even maybe a skilled driver to help us drive better.

Ideally we would be able to see revs, speed, steering angle, throttle, brake pressure.

[ghz28]

To get the data you are seeking the minimum you will need is some sort of data logger with external sensor inputs, the GPS option makes lap timing and line taken data available also, without external timer like a Dorian.

Innovate Motorsport do one and the price seems pretty good for the features.

I have used the Motec on a pro car, and have used a Racepak G2X previously in my own race car, but have moved up to the Racepak IQ3 logger/dash combination. http://www.racepak.com/IQ3Dash/

The main advantage of this dash is predictive lap display and configurable data pages. You also get progressive shift lights with shift points programmed for each gear, along with a gear indicator mid screen.

External sensors can be interfaced via the V-net controller, but they are saying that within a few months they will release a generic OBD-II interface so throttle position, oil pressure, temps etc will all be displayable on the dash as well as being logged. It has 3 axis accelerometers too, but I don't think the vertical one is so important.

I have not moved to steering angle logging as yet, because the solutions I found are all way too expensive.

With the basics as it stands, I can see braking points, turning points, segment reports are done based on times between entry and exit points of each corner, so QR for instance is broken into 12 segments for the national circuit. It also easily displays segment differences, overlays etc and will give a theoretical fastest lap, adding all the quickest segments, and a G-G plot to see how consistently you are driving.

Lots of stuff that I haven't even gotten to as yet as well.

Basically I think it is a very good value package, about half the equivalent Motec dash, and there is more value coming as they progress. Basic US price is about US$1400 ex tax.

Cheers,

Garry

ps you can download the analysis software from that site, and if you like I can send you some of my data to look at.....I am not real quick but you would get the idea of what you can see without any external sensors. Oh and it comes with some sample data from an American track anyway.

[35R]

Scott, i use HPTuners for the engine logging. I also log wide-band every now and then to keep track of the fuel. Other than that, Oil pressure - very important on our cars. You've got to watch that closely. You could probably get any number of OBD2-port data loggers though (non-HPT) there are heaps of them, some really cheap.

I also use a driftbox for the GPS / Lap timing / Lap plotting stuff. It's an awesome bit of gear, and you dont have to stuff around with beacons. It's very accurate too.

[Justin]

I was looking at a website the other day and there was a product called DashDaq. OBDII plug-in data logging device. I just can't for the life of me recall where it was...

I use a Racelogic PerformanceBox for my logging requirements, but it doesn't support a lot of the functions you require.

[Scotty]

Garry,

Thanks for the detailed response. We found that the steering angle sensor provided a good understanding as to how the drivers were attacking corners... but it is porbably not neccessary at this point.

Dam out $$$....

Dunc, how long can you log with HP tuners?

Scott

[35R]

Garry,

Thanks for the detailed response. We found that the steering angle sensor provided a good understanding as to how the drivers were attacking corners... but it is porbably not neccessary at this point.

Dam out $$$....

Dunc, how long can you log with HP tuners?

Scott

It will depend on what parameters you log, but i think with HPTuners you could log about 1 hour on the black box itself. I've never had to log that much (in one session) though, the most has only been say 15~20 mins. Then i download the data (in the pits say) and clear the log. If you are only looking at logging, then there are so many other loggers out there. All they do is basically take data from the OBD2 port, so i would hazard a guess you could get something cheaper than HPT. Perhaps look at EFILive too. I use the HPT logger mainly because i already have it (as a tuning tool).

If you do buy a "generic" OBD2 logger; one thing most of them CANT do is clear Holden/gm LS1 codes properly. When i did all the testing for the Aeroforce guages, i had to get them to develop some custom code for it to work with the Holden LS1 cars. So keep that in mind i suppose.

[Scotty]

do the Aeroforce guages provide readily accessible data?

[35R]

do the Aeroforce guages provide readily accessible data?

No. They can only record about 45 seconds, and are only good for "playback" on the aeroforce screen. Perhaps ok for drag racing, but no good for what you want really.

[ghz28]

Scott,

what type of steering angle sensor did you use with the Motec?

When I eventually do mine I am tending towards a linear pot on the steering rack, the other considered solution is a rotary pot driven from the steering column. Both have advantages and disadvantages, but both cost big $$$ to do accurately and repeatably.

On things like brake line pressure, I have noticed that mil-spec Motec transducers like we use in the Doorslammer tend to cost $4-500 each, especially ones that will read the 1000+ psi in brake lines. I was initially considering adding just a brake light switch sensor, this would at least give accurate braking point info and the OBD-II info (albeit delayed due to serial data transmission time) would suffice for the throttle position sensor.

The guy who runs the Timeattack series up here is making a data and engine logger system himself, and I am involved in the beta testing as we are comparing it against my Racepak system as an established benchmark. His target price for basic GPS/accelerometer based data logger is around $1000, with software, and the engine monitor, ver 3 I think, will be released around the same time. He has been making engine monitors and AWD controllers for skylines etc for about 6 years.....

As a basic starting point it seems like the Performance Box or Drift Box is a great idea, and no doubt will be resellable to startup racers if you decide to move up later. But I do suggest getting something in there as soon as possible so you have good progress data.

Garry



Garry,

We found that the steering angle sensor provided a good understanding as to how the drivers were attacking corners... but it is porbably not neccessary at this point.

Scott

[35R]

I've been trying to integrate data and video, thus far i've got the GPS data working:

http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=9BaE7q0J_L0&fmt=18

Next step is to try and get the HPTuners data "channel" integrated into the same data input, so we can then show Oil pressure, AFR, RPM, TPS, ECT etc etc etc, whatever (OBD2 data) you like basically. Got to work on configuring a clearer screen / bigger on-screen guages though.

[Scotty]

Thats a pretty neat setup there dunc.

I presume youtube takes away a fair bit of the quality?

So is that data from the driftbox?

Can you explain all the items you are/will be using ? Thanks

[35R]

Yeah youtube screws up the quality somewhat; I will play with making the overlay bigger next time - so we can actually read the numbers!

Basically you take the file from the driftbox, and using some cool software (trackvision) merge it with the video (creating the overlay).

With the driftbox you get road speed, lap times, drift angle (you can also get lat and long g forces, yaw rates etc).

I would like to also merge some OBD2 data from HPTuners or EFILive data, so we can see Oil Pressure, Gear selected, engine coolant temps, maybe a few other things.

[waylow]

I use an AIM mychron 3 Plus. Its the base model, so doesn't do GPS mapping. It will display and log RPM, Speed, Battery voltage, Cabin Temp, best lap and current lap times. It can also have 4 analouge inputs, each which has its own low and hi alarms, which are configured via the software. Currently I have water and oil temp, oil pressure and fuel level configured on my dash, though I will more than likely do away with fuel level now it wont be getting used on the road, and adding TPS.

The next model up is essentially the same unit, but adds GPS mapping, the top range model has all those features plus connects to various ECU's, so it will display and log all the channels the ECU has as inputs, plus what ever analouge inputs you might wish to add.

You can pretty much have anything you like as an input, steering angle, fuel pressure, brake pressure ect.

Mine cost me $760 landed, which is really cheap compared to some models on the market. This included the loom, 2 temp sensors, software and the lap timing beacon. The most expensive model is $949 US.

[Scotty]

Yeah youtube screws up the quality somewhat; I will play with making the overlay bigger next time - so we can actually read the numbers!

Basically you take the file from the driftbox, and using some cool software (trackvision) merge it with the video (creating the overlay).


Is the software for the merge relatively easy to use? getting the timing right between the two sets of data?

[35R]

Is the software for the merge relatively easy to use? getting the timing right between the two sets of data?

Yep, hard to believe but it's very easy, easiest part of the process actually. It comes up with a track map (dot on the screen showing current GPS position) and it also shows your video (you can advance/rewind the data and video independently as required) so when the video meets the same location at the GPS dot you just click a "latch" button and it's done. Very intuitive, very easy. I dunno how it synchs up after that, i suppose it analyses the respective frame rates of the data and the video. It just works. I've had some issues with the audio stuffing up - but that's not really a trackvision issue.

[rice racing]

Hello, Great site.

Does anyone have any .dbn or .vbo (Race Logic, perf or drift or VBOX) files from Eastern Creek. Please if you can E-Mail it to me along with the type of car you did it with. Thanks.

peter@riceracing.com.au

[GTS Listy]

Can not help with the above but I have been using the Innovation LM2 for data logging. Seems like a good data logging set up and easy to use. I hope to get some laps where I can do some overlaying of data with video. It has a 2GB SD card and would be able to record hours upon hours as the file size is not that big at all.
I have been working on GPS lap timing systems but from lots of looking around the performance box and the value is hard to beat. The star lane is not bad priced at $510 but still for another 200 you can have a performance box which does more.

I can get 10hz gps lap timers for about $250 usd but they dont have a screen so times are only available after the race. Most want to see it as they drive so not much point.
There is the mobile phone versions too.

This was not set up right when I change the gauges around so some numbers are wrong but it is a sample of what it can do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMd8xCkFu4I

[2 cylinders shy]

From the performance box website
http://www.performancebox.co.uk/download/Eastern_Creek.zip

[rice racing]

oh I was after someone runs there... .vbo or .dbn files from a fast road car, not a track map. thanks.

[35R]

oh I was after someone runs there... .vbo or .dbn files from a fast road car, not a track map. thanks.

I am testing at Eastern Creek this Wednesday and Supersprint on Sunday, so i should have some driftbox data for you soon if you can wait.

[rice racing]

I am testing at Eastern Creek this Wednesday and Supersprint on Sunday, so i should have some driftbox data for you soon if you can wait.

Absolutely, thanks very much :thumbs:

Have your corner weighted your car as you run it? if so if you provide me with that detail I will as a thank you give you a formula I run/developed to show you the power it produces on track :) can be applied on VBOX software and I can overlay it onto your files.

Best Regards.

Peter

[35R]

Absolutely, thanks very much :thumbs:

Have your corner weighted your car as you run it? if so if you provide me with that detail I will as a thank you give you a formula I run/developed to show you the power it produces on track :) can be applied on VBOX software and I can overlay it onto your files.

Best Regards.

Peter

Not corner weighted, still running stocker r35 suspension (can't corner weight no sleeves / not proper coilovers)

[rice racing]

Not corner weighted, still running stocker r35 suspension (can't corner weight no sleeves / not proper coilovers)

I guess I was eluding to more the measured weight of your car as you run it :postwhore: (< sorry for bugging you so much), if you want you can E-Mail me about it.

[rice racing]

I would love it if you could do one test on the main straight as follows, leaving the car in 3rd gear and accelerating from 2500rpm through to 7000rpm, I understand the R35 will do about 98mph (157kmh) at 7000rpm in 3rd, so this test will be perfect and a good reflection of power band of your car.

I run a standard test that measures lots of cars in 3rd 90-140kmh report.... i would appreciate it very much if you could run this test tomorrow, (2500rpm to red line shift point 7000rpm) this will allow me to plot the power curve using my formula and also I can do a comparison to some other cars that may interest you.

It will only require around ~100m of track to do 90-140 so pick a flatter section just before the observation tower, that would be awesome :) As an incentive my RX7SP does this in ~2.80 seconds, I'll send you a log so you can compare for interest sake and also derive the power for you too....