Racing rear wings

[Scotty]

Does anyone know the benefits of having a real 'supercar' rear wing?

I think Aerons car needs one for the whole supercar look...

and where would we get them?

[HSV-105]

Does anyone know the benefits of having a real 'supercar' rear wing?

I think Aerons car needs one for the whole supercar look...

and where would we get them?

Rear end grip due to increased down force.

The front bar fitted to Aerons car would most likely have a detrimental effect on the overall balance and handling of the car due to increased front down force without any aero aids on the rear.

It would be quite a handful through high speed corners.

As to where to find a genuine VX Super wing you'll have look fairly hard and expect to cough up around $1500.

[Scotty]

Auto Action had an add in the back for one at $1000...

At this point I don't think it is neccessary, however when you consider the money we put into engine, brakes, data loggers etc... it seems reasonable to me.

Ideally, I would like to set it up so I can have my standard wing on the road, and then bolt in the rear wing for the track...

Would you be able to provide some pics of the overall aerodynamic stuff on your VX? and maybe the fixing points in the boot for the wing?

Its a good point that you raise for aerons car...

thanks

[GTS Listy]

This mob do them sort off. Probably could make them work.

http://www.australianauto.com.au/html/13_exterioracc/13a_exterioracc_01.htm

[GTS Listy]

Just dont ring them as they dont import them anymore. Used to be worth $450. Tracking them down now.

Doing some internet searching these cam up too. Pretty extreme
http://www.etperformance.com.au/webcatalogue/search.htm?cat_files/page056.htm
another.
http://www.rmsmotorparts.com.au/cgi-bin/HomeFrameset.cgi?Brands/Cusco/gt_wing/high_mount_adj_gt_wing.htm

More available if you type in a google as 'high mount rear wing' of just high wing

Here is the VR/VS model rear wing on the GTSR $550. Not sure if that would work on later model
http://www.competitioncomponents.com/wings.htm#

[35R]

I've often wondered about this too.

Remember the little lip spolier on the HRT 427? Wasnt there some claimed downforce number for that?

[fatas]

give richard mork racing at londonderry a call he had truck loads of old vr vs vt supercar gear i paid $900 second hand for my ex pirkins carbon fiber rear VP wing and end plates :shock: but it was worth it :woot:

[GTS Listy]

One more
http://ssv.com.au/product.php?1687-UNI

and a few articles on what they will look like. Both these are carbon fibre custom jobs it says
http://autospeed.com/cms/A_2580/article.html
http://www.autospeed.com.au/cms/A_2674/article.html

[GTS Listy]

If you want one made these blokes will make one for you.
http://www.adcomp.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1&Itemid=2

[2 cylinders shy]

I've often wondered about this too.

Remember the little lip spolier on the HRT 427? Wasnt there some claimed downforce number for that?

I doubt that it would create downforce as from what i understand a spoiler does not generate downforce, it only reduces lift. (in doing so it can contribute to net downforce at the rear of the car)
Only a wing can create downforce.

I have been thinking about this aero business lately and the claim that has come to mind was from the time of the creation of the VZ series Monaro.
Holden stated in there media release that "a new underbody deflector − reducing rear lift and increasing aerodynamic stability" had been added this was expnded upon in many magazines with a 16% reduction the figure given.
This should be easy to emulate in other models with a sheet covering the fuel tank back?
Also holden have beefed up the undertray whenever they get a chance to muck around, for example Coupe 60, HRT427, gtsr concept, etc. This leads you to believe that there may be significant gains to be had in this area.

One more
http://ssv.com.au/product.php?1687-UNI



Listy there are a lot of companys the produce ornamentel aero aids, even within the Jap market there are only a few suppliers ($$$) that have done any significant testing and seem to have a noticeable effect on high speed handling. The rest is refered to as rice :)
I remember user "phunky munky" on LS1 was looking for a V8 SC spoiler a while back, now ive seen his track car and it is a seriously quick and well modified 180. He is heavily involved in the trackday/club scene and modified jap crowd. I think it pretty indicative of the amount of crap out there If he cannot source a wing that works through his contacts (hence the V8 SC one)

Wow thats probably my longest post ever :yike: Hope your still awake :wave:

[Scotty]

I was doing a bit of websurfing on aerodynamics... and also stumbled across the whole under tray thing...

Wasn't it Perkins who decided to race with an earlier model commodore one year at bathurst because of the undertray? I may have that totally wrong....

If you have a look at a lot of supercars.. they often have large undercarriage deflectors at the rear.. which I presume have some aero effect...

It would be good to have some real facts on the items that impact on the aerodynamics and the net loss and gain of items....

I would presume that our side mirrors add to drag... albiet a small amount...

[BOMI]

I was doing a bit of websurfing on aerodynamics... and also stumbled across the whole under tray thing...

Wasn't it Perkins who decided to race with an earlier model commodore one year at bathurst because of the undertray? I may have that totally wrong....

If you have a look at a lot of supercars.. they often have large undercarriage deflectors at the rear.. which I presume have some aero effect...

It would be good to have some real facts on the items that impact on the aerodynamics and the net loss and gain of items....

I would presume that our side mirrors add to drag... albiet a small amount...


Scotty, where the hell are you planning on race the car at mate?

Mirrors would affect you bugger all IMHO.

Troy :)

[HSV-105]

I was doing a bit of websurfing on aerodynamics... and also stumbled across the whole under tray thing...

Wasn't it Perkins who decided to race with an earlier model commodore one year at bathurst because of the undertray? I may have that totally wrong....

If you have a look at a lot of supercars.. they often have large undercarriage deflectors at the rear.. which I presume have some aero effect...

It would be good to have some real facts on the items that impact on the aerodynamics and the net loss and gain of items....

I would presume that our side mirrors add to drag... albiet a small amount...

Larry converted a VR back to VP for Bathurst 1996.

[fatas]

all hail the mighty VP :bow: 1st 2nd 3rd and 4th bathurst 1993 what a race get it out and watch some real race cars :thumbs: :driving: :doh: :attn:

[Aeron]

The front bar fitted to Aerons car would most likely have a detrimental effect on the overall balance and handling of the car due to increased front down force without any aero aids on the rear.


Mine is rice. :cry: It has no under-tray. :D

I still want a rear wing but! :D

[GTS Listy]

I am making going to make one up. I just can not decide on what I want and the supercars one are just too extreme. It will do nothing on the circuit but still I want something different. I found a clubsport wing at the wreckers and I am extending the legs a few inches and doing some work on the sides to get it a bit more racey looking.
I may turn out like rubbish but it costs bugger all as it was cracked but easy repair. Might take me a bit to do but over the next couple of months to get all the extra add ons completed but I think it will look good. Bit annoyed about the price of a VX bonnet. The wreckers want $400. Mine has to be steel to do what I am planning.

My photoshop programe is still buggered so it is all guesswork

[GTS Listy]

My plan is changed as people may have read in my thread. Not making up a wing but getting a supercar wing and boot complete with all the boot supports and bracing for the wing. It should be up here in a week, so i will get a photo then.
I am sure I will sell the new VX clubby wing to someone up here as no need for it anymore. I am going to trial the supercar wing next year for a bit of fun on the circuit. It is a proper one so fully adjustable and all the rest.

[2 cylinders shy]

My plan is changed as people may have read in my thread. Not making up a wing but getting a supercar wing and boot complete with all the boot supports and bracing for the wing. It should be up here in a week, so i will get a photo then.
I am sure I will sell the new VX clubby wing to someone up here as no need for it anymore. I am going to trial the supercar wing next year for a bit of fun on the circuit. It is a proper one so fully adjustable and all the rest.

Cool,
Can't wait to see the photos.

It will be interesting to see how it effects the handling of the green beast.
You would think that (assuming it is neutral at the moment) at low speed the car would be neutral and as speed increases it would become more underseery. Probably not a bad thing

[FatBoy]

Does anyone know the benefits of having a real 'supercar' rear wing?

I think Aerons car needs one for the whole supercar look...

and where would we get them?

Scotty - Talk to Scott Bucton. He races a VX in Improved Production here in NSW and should be able to point you in the right direction. You can contact him on 0402 884 447 and just say "Boppa" gave you his number...

Cheers,
Paul...

* Edit * Just realised this is a 6 week old topic, ooops ! :lol:

[Kyle]

You meen 1yr old topic Paul??

Piss off back to PF :D:D:D

[35R]

Interesting this has come up again; i've been researching this a lot and found a few good aero books. Some good watching on youtube is "The Secret Life of Formula 1" which chronicals various elements of advancement from the beginning.

Here is part 1 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oahaNKEGfvc

There is a good section on aero if you watch through all the parts.

I've recently acquired one of these (http://aeromotions.com/products/r-series) (active wing); yet to go on the R35. Currently thinking about if i need to add downforce on the front to balance it up? Not sure where most of the benefit will come from actually (in enhanced braking or extra lateral download). Apparently they have tested it (on the R35) at the MIT wind tunnel, guys in the USA are saying it's good for a second or two around most tracks. We'll see soon :)

[GTS Listy]

While the thread is here this is some pretty basic results from the V8 supercar wing.
This was done before the latest round of mods
Stock VX GTS wing I used to get 217/218 down the straight at hidden valley
V8 Supercar wing on full tilt 205 if that
supercar wing on flat as I could make it 215 or so
supercar wing on medium setting or my prefered setting 210/212

After all the latest mods extra weight etc I still manage 211/212. Very similar power but more weight so I am suprised I get that. This is with the same wing angle but I might take a bit out of it due to the extra weight over the back wheels with the LPG tank.

Biggest affect of the wing that you can feel seat of the pants stuff is under braking. As for the rest of a lap going around corners etc it is not that noticable but I can do a good .75 to 1 second a lap quicker with the rear wing on comared to off. That is with a fair slower top end speed of the stock wing compared to the supercar wing.

The other thing I like the look. The decals have made it more suited again.

You can see the angle I run it at so not huge angle on it.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/PB0105191.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/PB0102801.jpg

THis is with it on full tilt taken ages ago. Sits really high up and feels awesome but I simple dont have the power to overcome the drag.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Cageandwinginstalled006.jpg

[35R]

thanks for posting that up Listy, interesting. So what do you attribute the extra time to, better/later braking or extra downforce on turns? or a bit of both? did you notice any change in attitude to the front, either straights or turns? or did it feel much the same in that sense?

[GTS Listy]

thanks for posting that up Listy, interesting. So what do you attribute the extra time to, better/later braking or extra downforce on turns? or a bit of both? did you notice any change in attitude to the front, either straights or turns? or did it feel much the same in that sense?

Better and more confident braking no question as from the real fast stops. There is 2 sections of braking coming down from 170+ mark and the straight from 212 or so. Under braking it seems to come into its own and the car seems to sit flatter under hard stops (kinda like rear brake bias I guess).

I would like to say I can notice it working in the 120-170 km/h corners and turn in sections but I can not. Fact is I am quicker through those areas with the wing on than off so it must be doing somthing. I can not tell much difference from the front either.
As a comparison I can tell the immediate affect of old RE55 to the AO48 I used for a round. That is a hugh change to turn in and grip both corner and braking and it cost a good 2 seconds a lap if not more. If I took the wing off I would slightly notice but nothing like the tyre change. If you know what i am getting at

I have got so used to driving with the supercar wing I would not be too keen to do camparisings back to back flat out without it to get data. I have the Innovate LM2 and the GPS speed and laping timing now so it would be good if I can one day.

[FatBoy]

You meen 1yr old topic Paul??

Piss off back to PF :D:D:D

Ummm, err yeah. Whats a year or so between friends, sheesh... :hide: