OTR dyno testing with bonnet shut

[SS346]

Just thought i'd let you know the results i got with some otr testing on a ve ss ute, the three leading brands orsome, russo and the csv.

the car has a full exhaust, 4>1 headers and a dual 2.5

they all made very similar power, orsome made 266 russo made 269 the csv made 267 (all mafless). i then thought what happens when the bonnet is shut? the csv and orsome heavily rely on the air intake in between the bonnet and radiator support, air intake from there is not that bad on an ss with the bonnet seal removed, but on a hsv, with the extra lip on the bonnet it causes a major restriction, that too would be an interesting test. the russo otr relys on the air intake at the grille.

orsome bonnet shut 253rwkw
csv bonnet shut 256rwkw
russo bonnet shut 269rwkw.

needless to say which is more effective, most dyno power runs/tunes are carried out with the bonnet open, but yet the car is driven with the bonnet shut.

food for thought.

next test will be at the drag strip.

FWIW, this was a test out of pure boredem, and independant test at that, i was just curios to know which otr works best in real world conditions.

[seedyrom]

Very interesting

Good job

[Delft Maloo]

Good job girch, the results speak for them selves.

[35R]

Interesting I guess, exactly what I would have thought though, given how each work

[boyley]

mmmmmmmmmm, 16rwkw, mmmmmmmmm:bash:

[Muncha]

After looking at them its easy to see why the results turned out like that.

Are you going to be doing any more testing?

I would have liked to have seen how the mine compared to the Russo, pretty sure i know the answer though.... :wave:

[boyley]

After looking at them its easy to see why the results turned out like that.

Are you going to be doing any more testing?

I would have liked to have seen how the mine compared to the Russo, pretty sure i know the answer though.... :wave:

Muncha whats the mine OTR:stick:

[Delft Maloo]

i think muncha has one of castle hill exhaust's one, it has a deflector plate on it to gather air from the grill so i reckon it would be closer to the russo one than the others imho.

[Muncha]

Muncha whats the mine OTR:stick:

massively
induced
noise
enabler

:teach: :D


Yeah its the CHE one, with air flow it should be better than the others, except the Russo. I think it would be a bit down but hopefully not to much.

[mick]

massively
induced
noise
enabler

:teach: :D


Yeah its the CHE one, with air flow it should be better than the others, except the Russo. I think it would be a bit down but hopefully not to much.

I like that one cary (mine)
That sounds like a good test see how much difference there is.
good work girch.

[SS346]

After looking at them its easy to see why the results turned out like that.

Are you going to be doing any more testing?

I would have liked to have seen how the mine compared to the Russo, pretty sure i know the answer though.... :wave:

best thing for yourself, is try it at the track, it cant hurt. i reckon you could borrow one. ;)
that will be your own independant test. there is nothing to hide, the products are out there available to the public. see for yourself.

the russo otr "could" be the edge they have with micks car, and gm motorsports car (im pretty sure they had a russo intake as well)

[SS346]

i think muncha has one of castle hill exhaust's one, it has a deflector plate on it to gather air from the grill so i reckon it would be closer to the russo one than the others imho.

yep i agree, i did have one, unfortunately i sold it a couple of days before i did the testing.

[GTS Listy]

I am not technical so I am not disputing anything but as a general points.

There has not been any mention of the intake temp difference. Were all the intake temps the same or was one hotter than the other i.e. different position of the intake sensor on one compared to another. Interesting find but 16 rwkw seems a hell of allot just from a smidgen bit difference to air pick up. It still is cold air no matter what but seem so much difference. By that result it would make some good name ORI seem somewhat uselless compared to the stock airbox. Normal pick up from a ORI is about 15 to 20rwkw isnt it (no tune) providing that is with the bonett down. If it was bonnet up then the advertised ORI install pickup is not a real comparison compared to the stock going by this result.
Can some people get their money back as some of these ORI guarantee results but it may not be now

Is there a stock air box dyno readout too with the car in the same conditions as with the testing of the ORIs. That would of been a good basis test if I was to do this. Stock bonnet up and down. You would say it most make a difference with the stock but what if it did.

[VooDoo]

Can someone post some pic's of each type so we can see the differance.

[NickS]

I am not technical so I am not disputing anything but as a general points.

There has not been any mention of the intake temp difference. Were all the intake temps the same or was one hotter than the other i.e. different position of the intake sensor on one compared to another. Interesting find but 16 rwkw seems a hell of allot just from a smidgen bit difference to air pick up. It still is cold air no matter what but seem so much difference. By that result it would make some good name ORI seem somewhat uselless compared to the stock airbox. Normal pick up from a ORI is about 15 to 20rwkw isnt it (no tune) providing that is with the bonett down. If it was bonnet up then the advertised ORI install pickup is not a real comparison compared to the stock going by this result.
Can some people get their money back as some of these ORI guarantee results but it may not be now

Is there a stock air box dyno readout too with the car in the same conditions as with the testing of the ORIs. That would of been a good basis test if I was to do this. Stock bonnet up and down. You would say it most make a difference with the stock but what if it did.

These tests where all done by Chipmaster in Perth Listy ... he is completed isolated from all 3 sellers / manufacturers and without trying to shit stir is somewhat more "independent" than SS346 claims to be.

He put the Russo one on top by somewhat smaller margin than is being claimed here ... all 3 worked heaps better than the factory airbox and all 3 made good gains. I don't think anyone needs to be asking for their money back.

[Delft Maloo]

Nick iv seen most of the otr's except the gm one but from a design point of how and where they gather their air from it is no suprise that the russo one is by far better, it has a lot larger uninterupted air flow to the filter than up through the intake into the tb.
For smart reasons it the most simular to the older designs that have proven to be most effective.
Air will flow through a filter easier when the filter is placed closer to the source and is placed with its frontal area as square as possible not laid in the same direction as the airflow.
Nearly all the effective pressure will be lost fighting its way through gaps between the bonnet and and radiator support on its way to a filter but when the filter is placed in an uninterupted path the only pressure loss will be at the filter itself.
I dont know why its so hard to understand? nearly ever other otr befor has the filter as forward and upright as possible.
In the case of a deflector plate than you would be gathering the availible air flow fron the front as well but a little direct flow pressure will be lost.
Dale from che made an otr that fed from the bonnet gap alone but for some reason it didnt quite work so good with the bonnet closed, sollution put a deflector plate down into the grille area and gather more air form there and hey presto it works better.

From memory i dont recall dan ever testing the otr's with the bonnets up vs bonnets shut and as girch said with the bonnets up all 3 were nearly identical.

[GTS Listy]

Fair call about money back. Not really the issue and my mistake. The issue is the bonnet position. They all work great as mentioned but what are the gains from stock to bonnet closed with all three types. It just would be nice to see it. Obvously the Rosso one seems no difference but this result may bring a new way of testing and when people want a ORI they will now want to know the KW improvement with bonnet down.

Wonder why this did not show up with earlier model ORI or get similar results. I presume the VE design make it limited what can be done. Surely the issue is not with the patent that is out on the deflector plate I read about in ls1. Would people go to the trouble of finding another way going by improvements with bonnet up.

[Delft Maloo]

Listy nearly every other otr made has allways had the filter placed as far forward as possible to maximize the air pressure at the filter.
Quite honestly listy i beleive you have one of the best otr's made for the earlier shape and yes i did have one on my maloo and i have had the newer style orrsom one as well and i currently have a power torque one on there atm, none of which i beleive are as good as the original orrsom otr that you have, why? because of the filter flacement and the scoop gathering fresh cold air direct from the front of the car and forcing it through the air filter.
All the otr's before have allways put the filter in the most direct placement possible to maximize airflow and pressure.

Try putting your hand out the car window while moving, position your hand horizontaly flat and feel the pressure against it, now turn your hand so the palm is in a vertical position and feel the difference, it kinda makes sense why you place the filter surface as square as possible to the air flow. In saying all this listys otr filter is positioned facing down but when the is and air scoop in the direct air flow path redirecting square into the filter it works just as well.

[Delft Maloo]

Pics for people who dont know what the different otr's look like.
1.CSV
2.Orrsom
3.GM Motorsport-Sorry hard to find a pic of their otr.
4.Castle Hill Exhaust
5.Russo Perfomance.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/CSV20DTI20VE.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/orrsomveotr.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/cheveotr.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/russoveotr.jpg

[NickS]

I dont know why its so hard to understand?

It's not that hard to understand Tim ...

If the Russo OTR was that far ahead every Russo VE out there would be as quick as Mick ... they aren't. If it was that easy the quickest A6 wouldn't be running an Orrsom OTR ... would it ? Bung a Russo OTR on an A6 and go flog SS Enforcers time, should be a piece of piss.

:hmmm:

In my opinion the Russo OTR is probably the best one out there for VE's looking for every tenth on the drag strip. I just don't believe the margin is as big as SS346's "independent" test claims it is.

Nothing against Chris + Justin, they do awesome work and their OTR is sensational ... but my SS-V wagon (with 1,500 kms on the clock) made 263rwkw with the bonnet shut and an Orssom OTR ... are you confident it would make 280rwkw with a Russo OTR ?

[Delft Maloo]

im not saying the margin is exact and would be repeated with such difference everytime. i beleive the orrsom otr would fair better on the open road than opposed to the dyno for performance but like itself in that instance the others would gain aswell.
As far as other russo otr's performing i am yet to see somone match joe's gts and duncans caprice for results with the given basic mods.

Regards pauls times, well no body else really seems bothered to challenge him atm and he hasnt tried the other otr brands to see which performs better so you cant say that the his otr is the best, come to think of it there doesnt seem to be many real descent results from most of the otr's on the market no matter what state of modification the vehicles have.
Micks car does have other mods besides an russo otr on it to help it acheive such results.

[mick]

It's not that hard to understand Tim ...

If the Russo OTR was that far ahead every Russo VE out there would be as quick as Mick ... they aren't. If it was that easy the quickest A6 wouldn't be running an Orrsom OTR ... would it ? Bung a Russo OTR on an A6 and go flog SS Enforcers time, should be a piece of piss.

:hmmm:

In my opinion the Russo OTR is probably the best one out there for VE's looking for every tenth on the drag strip. I just don't believe the margin is as big as SS346's "independent" test claims it is.

Nothing against Chris + Justin, they do awesome work and their OTR is sensational ... but my SS-V wagon (with 1,500 kms on the clock) made 263rwkw with the bonnet shut and an Orssom OTR ... are you confident it would make 280rwkw with a Russo OTR ?

Nick there have been several cars that have switched to the russo one after haveing other brands on there and yes they do pick up a fair bit.I am not sure of exact numbers.
Every car that races with the russo intake and russo tune runs great numbers compared to all the others we see it every wed night.

[35R]

Guys dont turn into a slanging match. The point of this thread is the performance of various OTR's with the bonnet closed. We all know cars are mostly tuned on the dyno with the bonnet up. That's it really! Some people will find it interesting (and truthful) and some may not. Look at the OTR's an make up your own mind.

[BOMI]

Guys dont turn into a slanging match. The point of this thread is the performance of various OTR's with the bonnet closed. We all know cars are mostly tuned on the dyno with the bonnet up. That's it really! Some people will find it interesting (and truthful) and some may not. Look at the OTR's an make up your own mind.

You should all STFU and look at my OTR, details below :mad:

My OTR got 297 RWKW with the dyno fan off, on a 41* day in the wet season in Darwin whilst running on a ultra safe tune on 89 octane and it really is nothing more then a rubber door mat and some gaffer tape strapped to my SS inductions TB.

Your OTRs are all singing and all dancing and cost heaps, go to bunnings and you will see that mine is the BOMi!!! :yep: :teach: :breakdance: :gotpicz:


So there :rock: :drivin: :jk: :playball:


Troy

[GTS Listy]

Looking at those photos there are some vast differences in design. The rosso one is the only one with the deflector plate in front of the radiator in the lower section of the grill. I thought this is the basic formula for a ORI. i.e. OVER THE RADIATOR (litlerly over it) and INTAKE in front of the radiator. Not on top of the radiator like the others (not haveing a go just pointing out) . Most of the VT to VZ do have the basic design of over the radiator picking up air from the front grill in the spoiler. I will have to start paying some more attention to VE mods.

I dont see how comparing one car to another and people saying their car is fastest can be compared based on what type of ORI they have. One might have a good engine and one not. Look at the differences stock dyno runs have on some car. Some vary 10 to 15rwkw off the block.

I am thinking this has somehow gone into the good old dyno results means everything. We have to get of of this (including me guilty as charged). Dyno is a tuning tool. Dyno is a tuning tool. Remember that

[35R]

You should all STFU and look at my OTR, details below :mad:

My OTR got 297 RWKW with the dyno fan off, on a 41* day in the wet season in Darwin whilst running on a ultra safe tune on 89 octane and it really is nothing more then a rubber door mat and some gaffer tape strapped to my SS inductions TB.

Your OTRs are all singing and all dancing and cost heaps, go to bunnings and you will see that mine is the BOMi!!! :yep: :teach: :breakdance: :gotpicz:


So there :rock: :drivin: :jk: :playball:


Troy

Troy you should whip a few of those up!

The TC Rubber door mat OTRCAI system

[firebug]

You should all STFU and look at my OTR, details below :mad:

My OTR is nothing more then a rubber door mat and some gaffer tape strapped to my SS inductions TB.

Troy

:gotpicz: http://i105.photobucket.com/albums/m231/Firebug_01/Smilies/gotpics.gif :fart:

[seedyrom]

http://www.trackchat.com.au/forum/showthread.php?t=957

[BOMI]

Its called the TCRDMOTRCAI, the photos are on V8NO so I cant get them here.

There look like a squished black stock MAF pipe.

If anyone here go's to V8OH please get em off there and put em here.

Cheers,

Troy :)

[cosmo vyss]

It's not that hard to understand Tim ...

If the Russo OTR was that far ahead every Russo VE out there would be as quick as Mick ... they aren't. If it was that easy the quickest A6 wouldn't be running an Orrsom OTR ... would it ? Bung a Russo OTR on an A6 and go flog SS Enforcers time, should be a piece of piss.

:hmmm:

In my opinion the Russo OTR is probably the best one out there for VE's looking for every tenth on the drag strip. I just don't believe the margin is as big as SS346's "independent" test claims it is.

Nothing against Chris + Justin, they do awesome work and their OTR is sensational ... but my SS-V wagon (with 1,500 kms on the clock) made 263rwkw with the bonnet shut and an Orssom OTR ... are you confident it would make 280rwkw with a Russo OTR ?

I find it hard to believe there is 13rwkw between them. Whack one on and then run it up on Sonny's dyno and see what happens. I think I have a fair idea on what the result would be like.

Nick there have been several cars that have switched to the russo one after haveing other brands on there and yes they do pick up a fair bit.I am not sure of exact numbers.
Every car that races with the russo intake and russo tune runs great numbers compared to all the others we see it every wed night.

Mick, Its not all about the tune and otr mate. Sure they play a big part in it. Alot is the driver and setup helps as you know. I am not saying the Russo gear isn't any good. I just think some claims are a bit hard to believe.

JB

[Delft Maloo]

I find it hard to believe there is 13rwkw between them. Whack one on and then run it up on Sonny's dyno and see what happens. I think I have a fair idea on what the result would be like.
JB




No one said that the difference between them would be the same if tested once or 20 times.

The otr test was not perfomed on any of the otr sellers dyno's so you cant claim russo,marrano's or corsa's influence, if you have a problem with the result take it up with the tester SS346.

[BOMI]

No one said that the difference between them would be the same if tested once or 20 times.

The otr test was not perfomed on any of the otr sellers dyno's so you cant claim russo,marrano's or corsa's influence, if you have a problem with the result take it up with the tester SS346.



Sheesh Tim Chillax!!

Troy :)

[Delft Maloo]

im not burred up or anything troy, it was a comparison thats all and girch has more to go apparently.

I dont have an otr for my ve yet but i will get one once the maloo progresses abit further, i will admit that ill most likely get the russo otr as its design to me seems a better and more functional setup for me. I actually think the orrsom otr is the best looking bit of gear availible atm, dad has a calais v and ideally we would be putting the orrsom otr on his car unless it proved to be seriously lacking in performance.

Im going to do my own testing on a new dyno here in dubbo to please myself and my dad as to which products will work the best on our cars, ill share the results will all but if they dont like the results wether it be russo guys or any one it will be shown as accurate and consistent as i can possibly do it, The dyno will be operated by a 3rd party who does not even know any of the suppliers or products.
If the results are marginal between them than id be getting the best looking and fitting otr for dads calais v, then id most likely get the otr that performed the best regardless of appearence for my own car.

If girch's test proved accurate than i wouldnt buy the orrsom one, but if the difference was minimal than who cares about a few kw's it has the best factory appearence of them all.

[mick]

I find it hard to believe there is 13rwkw between them. Whack one on and then run it up on Sonny's dyno and see what happens. I think I have a fair idea on what the result would be like.



Mick, Its not all about the tune and otr mate. Sure they play a big part in it. Alot is the driver and setup helps as you know. I am not saying the Russo gear isn't any good. I just think some claims are a bit hard to believe.

JB

It has been tested on several cars with different drivers and with auto transmission and every time russo's cars performed great so i am putting it down to otr and tunning.Just my opinion.

[veewhytu]

I dont know why its so hard to understand? l.

Thts whats im scratching my head about...all you have to do is look at them!

Theres is a few major design differences between the Russo otr & all the others currently availabe....when someone copies it or its principle which will no doubt happen they too will get better results than other styles.

I had a Sureflow otr on my vy for a while, worked ok without the filter on but not so good with it in, i believe it was becuase the filter was much too close to the throttlebody, the old stlye orrsom otr was a much better product imo...looked very neat too. The current offering has inherent design flaws, nicely built, great finish but not the best option available.

[veewhytu]

..................

[boyley]

I ordered a russo today and I will show some real world results for you all on the 29th of November at the track. I currently run an orssom and am very interested to see the difference.

Just to be sure I will do 5 passes with the orssom (filter in) attached and then 5 passes with the russo (filter in) attached.

My IAT will be located where the manufacturer recommends its location.

I will keep my current tune which delivers 12.319@114.1MPH for both units.

If anyone thinks this to be an unfair comparison please let me know.

On the 30th of november I will have one OTR that will be not in use.

[Delft Maloo]

it will be good if you do this test mate but can i ask 2 things?
1. run both otr's on the same tune
2. re-tune to suit the different otr's.
I ask to re tune because the 2 otr's might have different airflow volumes and 1 might need more or less fuel and timing for it to perform at its potential.
Running them on the same tune and also on an optimized tune will give the most accurate results.
cheers tim

[BOMI]

it will be good if you do this test mate but can i ask 2 things?
1. run both otr's on the same tune
2. re-tune to suit the different otr's.
I ask to re tune because the 2 otr's might have different airflow volumes and 1 might need more or less fuel and timing for it to perform at its potential.
Running them on the same tune and also on an optimized tune will give the most accurate results.
cheers tim

OK Tim, soooo with Girchs test, Hi Girch you out there :news: , was each OTR and tune matched for max performance?

Or was the tune suited to ONE OTR and then the others thrown on and the car run on the Dyno.


Troy :)

[boyley]

it will be good if you do this test mate but can i ask 2 things?
1. run both otr's on the same tune
2. re-tune to suit the different otr's.
I ask to re tune because the 2 otr's might have different airflow volumes and 1 might need more or less fuel and timing for it to perform at its potential.
Running them on the same tune and also on an optimized tune will give the most accurate results.
cheers tim

I may be able to do this as I should have the russo early next week. If not I will certainly log both on all runs for close analysis.

I would expect girch tune matched each OTR prior to the test?

[veewhytu]

I may be able to do this as I should have the russo early next week. If not I will certainly log both on all runs for close analysis.

I would expect girch tune matched each OTR prior to the test?

Sounds good, is your car consistent?

[boyley]

Sounds good, is your car consistent?

Certainly is mate, consistant enough to get me through to the final of Tassie Nats, and taps out a 12.3 all day long

[veewhytu]

Certainly is mate, consistant enough to get me through to the final of Tassie Nats, and taps out a 12.3 all day long

Nice, thats fair moving for a big barge :bravo: sounds like a great car to measure any gains as accurately as possible.

[BOMI]

OK Tim, soooo with Girchs test, Hi Girch you out there :news: , was each OTR and tune matched for max performance?

Or was the tune suited to ONE OTR and then the others thrown on and the car run on the Dyno.


Troy :)

I may be able to do this as I should have the russo early next week. If not I will certainly log both on all runs for close analysis.

I would expect girch tune matched each OTR prior to the test?


Same thing I asked....:shitstorm:


Troy :)

[seedyrom]

i wouldn't have.

moreso just bolted them on and recorded what they spun up on the dyno

[BOMI]

i wouldn't have.

moreso just bolted them on and recorded what they spun up on the dyno

+1 here Seedy


Troy :)

[Delft Maloo]

OK Tim, soooo with Girchs test, Hi Girch you out there :news: , was each OTR and tune matched for max performance?

Or was the tune suited to ONE OTR and then the others thrown on and the car run on the Dyno.


Troy :)

Cant commet on girchs test troy as i dont know the details, but that is exactly how ill be doing my testing. Ill run a std timing table across the board and just adjust the fueling to get the afr's as close to 12.8afr as possible for each otr, then ill mod the timing tables to see if any extra * are available. Ill also be doing a few other variations and full logging for everything.

[cosmo vyss]

No one said that the difference between them would be the same if tested once or 20 times.

The otr test was not perfomed on any of the otr sellers dyno's so you cant claim russo,marrano's or corsa's influence, if you have a problem with the result take it up with the tester SS346.

No stating any influence mate or a problem with the test. I am a big supporter of individual testing. Just stated that the result seemed rather large. If there really is that much difference then the result should be able to be repeated no what the conditions are. The difference between them should still be there no matter if the day is hotter or colder. Say DD in shootout mode the result shouldn't change.

It has been tested on several cars with different drivers and with auto transmission and every time russo's cars performed great so i am putting it down to otr and tunning.Just my opinion.

Everyone has one Mick. The Russo guys do great work from all the reports I have heard. Not doubting there ability mate, Just pointing out an otr and tune doesn't automatically equal a good time at the track. No doubt its a large contributer to the outcome.

OK Tim, soooo with Girchs test, Hi Girch you out there :news: , was each OTR and tune matched for max performance?

Or was the tune suited to ONE OTR and then the others thrown on and the car run on the Dyno.


Troy :)

I am going out on a limb here and hazard a guess that one OTR had been previously tuned and then the others placed on then run up on the dyno. Just my guess.

R the dyno sheets for this test going to be posted? It would be interesting to see the afr and intake temp differences between the cars.

[seedyrom]

The test puts the Russo unit in a favourable light, as the other units clearly have an lower intake volume ability than the others.
Thats a given, that even Stevie Wonder can see it.

If the other units were placed on, without retuning, I can totally understand the results being as they were.


Whilst yes, I can see that this might anger owners of the other units, and cause much rage about the fact that the other OTR's weren't re-tuned ... I think that the test is actually a really good "real world" scenario.

Is the average punter meant to shell out a few hundred dollars for a re-tune to match every subsequent OTR they buy?
Otherwise the sellers should add that to the purchase cost.

Will someone with a MAFless mail order tune and an OTR be expecting 10/10 performance from their OTR?
It doesn't seem like it from people against the results.
Only if they have a custom tune will they benefit seems to be the general consensus.
Using the one base tune that hasn't been fiddled for any OTR in particular has to be the only way to really compare.


Whilst this wont happen due to the costs involved and no sponsors wanting to touch this one with a barge pole, I reckon the only fair way, and true to real world scenarios would be to get a bunch of mail order MAFless tunes from various sponsors, and trying the various OTR's with the bonnet shut.
If not, then the cost of a custom re-tune should be added if you are trying to compare kilowatts with kilowatts.


Gee ... who would have thought OTR wars would start up again?

I reckon everyone should just go forced induction ... oh wait ... that war hass already been done aswell

[hsvredsled]

I guess the easy solution to all this is as follows.

Does more air mean (faster flowing) = better HP?

Does colder air = better HP?

Is so, then an independent test using a airflow guage and temp guage near the throttle body is your answer. Dont even connect the units to the engine. Controlled environment, same airflow through the various OTRs.

[BOMI]

The test puts the Russo unit in a favourable light, as the other units clearly have an lower intake volume ability than the others.
Thats a given, that even Stevie Wonder can see it.

If the other units were placed on, without retuning, I can totally understand the results being as they were.


Whilst yes, I can see that this might anger owners of the other units, and cause much rage about the fact that the other OTR's weren't re-tuned ... I think that the test is actually a really good "real world" scenario.

Is the average punter meant to shell out a few hundred dollars for a re-tune to match every subsequent OTR they buy?
Otherwise the sellers should add that to the purchase cost.

Will someone with a MAFless mail order tune and an OTR be expecting 10/10 performance from their OTR?
It doesn't seem like it from people against the results.
Only if they have a custom tune will they benefit seems to be the general consensus.
Using the one base tune that hasn't been fiddled for any OTR in particular has to be the only way to really compare.


Whilst this wont happen due to the costs involved and no sponsors wanting to touch this one with a barge pole, I reckon the only fair way, and true to real world scenarios would be to get a bunch of mail order MAFless tunes from various sponsors, and trying the various OTR's with the bonnet shut.
If not, then the cost of a custom re-tune should be added if you are trying to compare kilowatts with kilowatts.


Gee ... who would have thought OTR wars would start up again?

I reckon everyone should just go forced induction ... oh wait ... that war hass already been done aswell

I guess the easy solution to all this is as follows.

Does more air mean (faster flowing) = better HP?

Does colder air = better HP?

Is so, then an independent test using a airflow guage and temp guage near the throttle body is your answer. Dont even connect the units to the engine. Controlled environment, same airflow through the various OTRs.



Dan how is it clear to see that the others have a lower intake volume?

Where do you get that info, have I missed something, if so please set me straight.


As fas as intake wars... well I think thats a bit to full on a thing to say Wars?

Maybe some healthy discussion.

I know that Girch posted this for two reasons, good info on OTRs and conjecture and the like.

Girch, feel free to give us some more info, EG was each OTR tuned to the engine set up?



Troy :)

[BOMI]

The test puts the Russo unit in a favourable light, as the other units clearly have an lower intake volume ability than the others.
Thats a given, that even Stevie Wonder can see it.

If the other units were placed on, without retuning, I can totally understand the results being as they were.


Whilst yes, I can see that this might anger owners of the other units, and cause much rage about the fact that the other OTR's weren't re-tuned ... I think that the test is actually a really good "real world" scenario.

Is the average punter meant to shell out a few hundred dollars for a re-tune to match every subsequent OTR they buy?
Otherwise the sellers should add that to the purchase cost.

Will someone with a MAFless mail order tune and an OTR be expecting 10/10 performance from their OTR?
It doesn't seem like it from people against the results.
Only if they have a custom tune will they benefit seems to be the general consensus.
Using the one base tune that hasn't been fiddled for any OTR in particular has to be the only way to really compare.


Whilst this wont happen due to the costs involved and no sponsors wanting to touch this one with a barge pole, I reckon the only fair way, and true to real world scenarios would be to get a bunch of mail order MAFless tunes from various sponsors, and trying the various OTR's with the bonnet shut.
If not, then the cost of a custom re-tune should be added if you are trying to compare kilowatts with kilowatts.


Gee ... who would have thought OTR wars would start up again?

I reckon everyone should just go forced induction ... oh wait ... that war hass already been done aswell



Dan how is it clear to see that the others have a lower intake volume?

Where do you get that info, have I missed something, if so please set me straight.


As fas as intake wars... well I think thats a bit to full on a thing to say Wars?

Maybe some healthy discussion.

I know that Girch posted this for two reasons, good info on OTRs and conjecture and the like.

Girch, feel free to give us some more info, EG was each OTR tuned to the engine set up?



Troy :)

[seedyrom]

Pics for people who dont know what the different otr's look like.
1.CSV
2.Orrsom
3.GM Motorsport-Sorry hard to find a pic of their otr.
4.Castle Hill Exhaust
5.Russo Perfomance.
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/CSV20DTI20VE.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/orrsomveotr.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/cheveotr.jpg
http://i205.photobucket.com/albums/bb105/tkwpalm/russoveotr.jpg
Colder air has a lower volume I thought
The russo (and now the modified CHE one) are ythe only OTR's that draw cold air from the gril. The others all suck in air that is mixed with air from the engine bay. Also has a much larger filter surface area. As the filter fills up with crud, I assume that it would take longer on the Russo filter before power drops away.
(Bonnet closed shots would tell the story even more.).

No wonder the HSV W427 OTR also does the same thing

http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa15/stelth747/W427/0e1c1486.jpg

Then again, I know sh!t about sh!t, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it ;)

[VooDoo]

The HSV one IS the Russo one with some tweaks i was told.

[Delft Maloo]

but with out an open filter, which is probably why it has shown to be a little restrictive.

[BOMI]

Colder air has a lower volume I thought
The russo (and now the modified CHE one) are ythe only OTR's that draw cold air from the gril. The others all suck in air that is mixed with air from the engine bay. Also has a much larger filter surface area. As the filter fills up with crud, I assume that it would take longer on the Russo filter before power drops away.
(Bonnet closed shots would tell the story even more.).


Then again, I know sh!t about sh!t, so my opinion is worth what you paid for it ;)

Colder air is denser, so cubic metre of Air at 5* weights for example 200grams and a cubic metre of air at 45* weighs say 80 grams.

Thats my take on it.

What you have to take into account with the different OTR's is;


1. Skin friction (Surface friction) on the inside.

2. Economy of air (fastest path to the TB)

3. Close ratio (does it taper down slowly to the TB or fast like the old ubquitous OTR we see everywhere)

4. Is the opening of the OTR at the point where the air presure on the B bar is highest

5. The angle of the opening of the OTR, is it 90* to the road or 45*


They are but some that I can think of.


So anyway Seedy, next time you go mentioning Steve Wonder you should do your homework and comment or dont and say nothing. From what you wrote I thought you knew for certain.

Now before you all tell me to chill Seedy and I know each other and he knows how I would be speaking if i was saying this to him in person :cheers:


Troy :)

[Delft Maloo]

Dont speak to seedy like that troy or ill open up a can of whoop ass on you tomorow:laugh:

[BOMI]

Dont speak to seedy like that troy or ill open up a can of whoop ass on you tomorow:laugh:


Im not there tomorrow unfortunatley mate... thats why im gobbing off LOL :D


Have fun out there... now back to the OTR wars!!!! :lmao:


Troy :)

[boyley]

A fella I work with is an aeronautical engineer (Rocket Scientist). He said to me there are criteria for optimum intake airflow. He designs scramjets.

1. Smooth surface (not polished though)
2. Minimal angles or squared surfaces
3. Funnel type design
4. Intake area must face the inrushing air

He said the engine uses HP to draw the air in and the less restrictions offered means the less HP used.

It all seems fairly simple when he spelled it out to me. Now whether or not there is 16kw in it may vary from car to car, but I would think a car with a cam would certainly benefit from all the key points above.

[seedyrom]

As outlined by LUX06L's comments above, The Russo and CHE also benefit from ram air aswell.

Having seen the orrsom I was surprised at how narrow the opening to the filter was (considering the basic principle), but anyway ... i'm yet to be proven its better :p


However, maybe the tests should also involve a bucket of water thrown through the grill on a power run :) :nana:

[GTS Listy]

Why is there only one type that utilities the over the radiator idea and all the others are on top of the radiator. Maybe the VE should have a new category. ORICAI i.e russo and TORCAI the other brands.
I do not understand why they have not stuck to the same basic principle of over the radiator and get air from the grill like the models before.

[BOMI]

A fella I work with is an aeronautical engineer (Rocket Scientist). He said to me there are criteria for optimum intake airflow. He designs scramjets.

1. Smooth surface (not polished though)
2. Minimal angles or squared surfaces
3. Funnel type design
4. Intake area must face the inrushing air

He said the engine uses HP to draw the air in and the less restrictions offered means the less HP used.

.

Thats exactly what I SAID, LOL and I dont design scram jets I blow shite up, but to get that to happen you need to get "things" going through the air, and No I dont design them, I use them :D


Well Im glad that someone was able to back my comments up.


Troy :cheers:

[Muncha]

Why is there only one type that utilities the over the radiator idea and all the others are on top of the radiator. Maybe the VE should have a new category. ORICAI i.e russo and TORCAI the other brands.
I do not understand why they have not stuck to the same basic principle of over the radiator and get air from the grill like the models before.

I think it is because of the lack of room on the VE, the only way to get the intake to go over and in front of the radiator is to lay the radiator back at a angle. Maybe some of the companies don't feel comfortable laying the radiator over a bit. :)

[Delft Maloo]

I think it is because of the lack of room on the VE, the only way to get the intake to go over and in front of the radiator is to lay the radiator back at a angle. Maybe some of the companies don't feel comfortable laying the radiator over a bit. :)

most likely right there muncha but it seems its good enough for hsv to do it on their w427

[GMMAD]

all this talk of best flowing OTR's
has given me the itch to make a new one for my car that draws air from the grill

[BOMI]

all this talk of best flowing OTR's
has given me the itch to make a new one for my car that draws air from the grill

Just build it wite the rules of design that the rocket dude and I mentioned :yep:

FYI I was gettikng .5 PSI positive manifold presure at 3/4 track (Drag) with the old OTR.


Troy :)

[boyley]

Just build it wite the rules of design that the rocket dude and I mentioned :yep:

FYI I was gettikng .5 PSI positive manifold presure at 3/4 track (Drag) with the old OTR.


Troy :)

:lol: :lol: :lmao:

[ziggycv8z]

I may as well throw another spanner in the works.
Here's one I prepared earlier.
What are your thought's on this one.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/DSC01284.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/DSC01288.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/DSC01299.jpg

[savvy]

More info please, i like the look of that!

Any bonnet clearance issues?

Home made or bought?

[ziggycv8z]

More info please, i like the look of that!

Any bonnet clearance issues?

Home made or bought?

Made out of 2.5 mm ally and powdercoated.

No clearance issues

Home designed and made

[boyley]

Made out of 2.5 mm ally and powdercoated.

No clearance issues

Home designed and made

Ziggy have you not sold the manufacture rights to this?

[ziggycv8z]

Ziggy have you not sold the manufacture rights to this?

No. We still make these and the VZ's. We mainly sell through word of mouth and a tuning shop in Brissy.

[savvy]

Made out of 2.5 mm ally and powdercoated.

No clearance issues

Home designed and made


Excellent job, how is the filter removed and can you run it with or without that top deflector plate.

Will it fit a VY and when can you make me one??:idea:

If not more pics if you got them, can't believe how good it looks!!

Edit: just read that last post, any info of where they are available from?
Can you pm me details please.

[DaveHAT]

Made out of 2.5 mm ally and powdercoated.

No clearance issues

Home designed and made

Another quality product Nick. Well done.
:woot:

The highlighted section above is reason enough to buy one and precisely why I bought one of Dus' OTRs. That plus it suits MY needs & looks the business as well.

The fact that it works very well is a bonus but the fact that your OTR is not directly assoc with any sponsored or non sponsored workshops is worth more than many would realise.

Extracation from the venerable pissing contests is worth every penny.

Be real about it ... ultimately they're all OTRs and they all work with the difference being SFA in the big scheme. Get over it and buy the one you like and that suits YOUR needs best, NOT the one that someone somewhere, sometime said was "best".

EDIT: Having to read this stuff in stereo both here and that other place is making my brain hurt.

:closed:

[seedyrom]

1. Smooth surface (not polished though)
This is the thing that confuses me about most OTR's.

I've never owned one, so forgive my ignorance.

Aren't most OTR's done in fibreglass, witht he smooth gel-coat side being on the outside for aesthetics, and the rough glass fibre side being the inside of the intake?

Are OTR's sanded smooth inside? Or are they rough?

[WOMBIE]

I can't speak about others but my fibre glass otrcai from CHE is rough on the inside.I might ask a question whilst i'm here....if we go a mafless tune like I did and dispense with the oem intake and maf due to a flow restriction,would there be much more 'if any' gains having one that is smooth on the inside?


Btw ziggy I love that otr of yours it's top notch.

[boyley]

No. We still make these and the VZ's. We mainly sell through word of mouth and a tuning shop in Brissy.

Humblist apologies Ziggy, I vaguely remember there was a shop interested in selling these.

Has your independant track testing shown gains over others and if not would you be prepared to have one tested against an Orssom and Russo down here in Tassie on the 29th?

This is the thing that confuses me about most OTR's.

I've never owned one, so forgive my ignorance.

Aren't most OTR's done in fibreglass, witht he smooth gel-coat side being on the outside for aesthetics, and the rough glass fibre side being the inside of the intake?

Are OTR's sanded smooth inside? Or are they rough?

I can only vouch for the Orssom I have currently and have to say the inside is not smooth. In fact someone with the time or inclination could benefit (guessing) from doing some porting in the main body and throat of it.

I can't speak about others but my fibre glass otrcai from CHE is rough on the inside.I might ask a question whilst i'm here....if we go a mafless tune like I did and dispense with the oem intake and maf due to a flow restriction,would there be much more 'if any' gains having one that is smooth on the inside?


Btw ziggy I love that otr of yours it's top notch.

As stated above WOmbo I believe there would be but how much? Who knows and to add this to the manufacturing process would most probably add cost, so maybe thats why they dont do it? Cost V Gain

Rob

[WOMBIE]

As stated above WOmbo I believe there would be but how much? Who knows and to add this to the manufacturing process would most probably add cost, so maybe thats why they dont do it? Cost V Gain

Rob

Absolutely cost v gain Rob for the average punter but from a serious drag racers perpective ( like yourself :waving: ) every poofteenth of power extracted from these puppies or from any mod would help in the mph and et department i would think.

[boyley]

Absolutely cost v gain Rob for the average punter but from a serious drag racers perpective ( like yourself :waving: ) every poofteenth of power extracted from these puppies or from any mod would help in the mph and et department i would think.

Damn:headbang: and I've been chasing the beesdick:happy:

Isnt it strange that when we refer to small things men and penis' analogies are used and conversely when we refer to things of visual pleasure its female. There she blows, shes a nice one that:tumbleweed:

[seedyrom]

gee, thats disappointing.

It'd take f___ all amount of time and energy to give it a bit of a sand smooth wouldn't it?

For the $600+ people pay for CAI's, i'm surprised its not already done.

Or if a manufacturer wanted to be really flash, imagine vortex generators inside it on the edge where the air flows over. Smooth out any pressure buildups, and have that air hit the throttle body at maximum velocity.

Very nice :cool:

[DaveHAT]

gee, thats disappointing.

It'd take f___ all amount of time and energy to give it a bit of a sand smooth wouldn't it?

For the $600+ people pay for CAI's, i'm surprised its not already done.

Or if a manufacturer wanted to be really flash, imagine vortex generators inside it on the edge where the air flows over. Smooth out any pressure buildups, and have that air hit the throttle body at maximum velocity.

Very nice :cool:

Interesting ... a possible business opportunity for someone with the know how.

OTR with integrated Hi-Clone ... guaranteed to deliver 300rwkw on any stock cammed car.

:yep:

[ziggycv8z]

Excellent job, how is the filter removed and can you run it with or without that top deflector plate.

Will it fit a VY and when can you make me one??:idea:

If not more pics if you got them, can't believe how good it looks!!

Edit: just read that last post, any info of where they are available from?
Can you pm me details please.

The filter is removed by undoing 2 stainless bolts that screw into the nutserts. I prefer to use nutserts as there is little to no chance of stripping the thread. The filter is held in place by an angle frame that incorporates the top catch plate. No it will not fit a VY but my other OTR will.
Here's a few pics.

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/0b31aefd.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/300fd472.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/ead3eafa.jpg

This is the VZ otr that will fit the VY

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/dbd28692.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/0187d31c.jpg

Another quality product Nick. Well done.
:woot:

The highlighted section above is reason enough to buy one and precisely why I bought one of Dus' OTRs. That plus it suits MY needs & looks the business as well.

The fact that it works very well is a bonus but the fact that your OTR is not directly assoc with any sponsored or non sponsored workshops is worth more than many would realise.

Extracation from the venerable pissing contests is worth every penny.

Be real about it ... ultimately they're all OTRs and they all work with the difference being SFA in the big scheme. Get over it and buy the one you like and that suits YOUR needs best, NOT the one that someone somewhere, sometime said was "best".

EDIT: Having to read this stuff in stereo both here and that other place is making my brain hurt.

:closed:

Thanks for the kind words. As this is only a hobby for me, I didn't want to get tied down with any workshop or pissing contest that my otr made so many rwkw. In saying that, I have offered one of my otr for the test just for personal interest. Also I can sell them much cheaper with no third party involved.



[QUOTE=LUXO6L;39581]Humblist apologies Ziggy, I vaguely remember there was a shop interested in selling these.

Has your independant track testing shown gains over others and if not would you be prepared to have one tested against an Orssom and Russo down here in Tassie on the 29th?



Not to much track testing. I will let you know about the test, as I have already offered a otr for a test.

[NickS]

Thanks for the kind words. As this is only a hobby for me, I didn't want to get tied down with any workshop or pissing contest that my otr made so many rwkw. In saying that, I have offered one of my otr for the test just for personal interest. Also I can sell them much cheaper with no third party involved.

It's unavoidable mate ... if you have offered one up for a test you will be dragged into a pissing contest, not other possible outcome IMO.

Having said that, what an awesome looking bit of gear, very impressive.

:bow:

[BOMI]

gee, thats disappointing.

It'd take f___ all amount of time and energy to give it a bit of a sand smooth wouldn't it?

For the $600+ people pay for CAI's, i'm surprised its not already done.

Or if a manufacturer wanted to be really flash, imagine vortex generators inside it on the edge where the air flows over. Smooth out any pressure buildups, and have that air hit the throttle body at maximum velocity.

Very nice :cool:



Seedy the FG ones are VERY rough, well the ones that I have seen are :yep:


I really like this otr, even with square edges it would still be better then FG ones as it has an extremely smooth inner surface.


Soooo how much??

Troy :)

[GTS Listy]

Have to be careful with that deflector plate aparently due to copyright. Just a thought from comments elsewhere.
Not having a go at the product as it looks great.

[Delft Maloo]

Nick has been kind enough to offer one of his ve otr's up for the test and going off the photo evidence it is a bueatifull looking bit of gear.
all the test i will perform will be as accurate and fair as humanly possible. i know for certain there will be some bitching no matter what the results are but thats peoples choice's, ill offer up plenty of evidence and if a workshop doesnt like it or an owner doesnt like it tuff titty's, im not marketing or selling any of the products and i have no ties to anyone of the products,.
obviously some will say im pro russo and their otr will be favored, well bullshit, i dont own one and iv never tested or seen one tested before, i would have stated befor my preference was for one of the russo otr's but thats becasue it makes more sense to me, nothing else.

I dont care if alot of people dont beleive my results but atleast ill know i done as much as i could to find out the possiblitys of the different otr's on the market, what other people do with that information is up to them.

does anyone beleive that if the ss inductions ve otr came out on top that everyone would start buying it? i doubt it, people will buy what they want and they have their loyalties no matter what.

[Muncha]

I think you may be right there Timmy. If the Russo comes out on top, which i believe it should, then i'm sure there will be someone saying it wasn't a fair test and you forged the numbers somehow. I believe you will do a fair and even test with all products involved. :)

Can you do a test with all FI products as well? I need a independent review of all systems and set ups. :D

[boyley]

Nick has been kind enough to offer one of his ve otr's up for the test and going off the photo evidence it is a bueatifull looking bit of gear.
all the test i will perform will be as accurate and fair as humanly possible. i know for certain there will be some bitching no matter what the results are but thats peoples choice's, ill offer up plenty of evidence and if a workshop doesnt like it or an owner doesnt like it tuff titty's, im not marketing or selling any of the products and i have no ties to anyone of the products,.
obviously some will say im pro russo and their otr will be favored, well bullshit, i dont own one and iv never tested or seen one tested before, i would have stated befor my preference was for one of the russo otr's but thats becasue it makes more sense to me, nothing else.

I dont care if alot of people dont beleive my results but atleast ill know i done as much as i could to find out the possiblitys of the different otr's on the market, what other people do with that information is up to them.

does anyone beleive that if the ss inductions ve otr came out on top that everyone would start buying it? i doubt it, people will buy what they want and they have their loyalties no matter what.

Tim I wouldnt get to paranoid mate, what your doing is great and the results are the results. Maybe you should perform the tests with the following criteria

1. Ease of fitment
2. Filter Life (Estimate how often the filter will require cleaning)
3. Performance
4. Quality/ Appearance
5. Price.

Give each a #/5 rating and total up the scores.

[savvy]

The filter is removed by undoing 2 stainless bolts that screw into the nutserts. I prefer to use nutserts as there is little to no chance of stripping the thread. The filter is held in place by an angle frame that incorporates the top catch plate. No it will not fit a VY but my other OTR will.
Here's a few pics.


This is the VZ otr that will fit the VY

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/dbd28692.jpg

http://i182.photobucket.com/albums/x50/ziggycv8z/OTR/0187d31c.jpg




Thanks for the info Ziggy, i have a similar VY-VZ type there in alloy (Marrano's), i actually had a look yesterday to see how i can make a deflector plate from the grille area and might give it a go when i get back to work.


I however do now also want a more OEM looking OTR similar to the one Dus makes.

[nqcv8]

This thread sparked my interest last night.

I was touching up a tune on a baby cammed VE SS Ute that was equiped with a Russo OTR.

Found similar things to Girch, actually made more power with the bonnet shut.
I ran it back to back .. run the car with bonnet open, got out shut the bonnet and ramped it up again.

Bonnet open was 303rwkw
bonnet closed was 305rwkw

cheers

Sean

[Delft Maloo]

Can you do a test with all FI products as well? I need a independent review of all systems and set ups. :D
Mate if you supply the parts ill do all the testing you like:lol:

Tim I wouldnt get to paranoid mate, what your doing is great and the results are the results. Maybe you should perform the tests with the following criteria

1. Ease of fitment
2. Filter Life (Estimate how often the filter will require cleaning)
3. Performance
4. Quality/ Appearance
5. Price.

Give each a #/5 rating and total up the scores.

at the end of it all i was going to give my personal preference on ease of fitment, maitainence, quaility and overall value based on my opinion only.

[ziggycv8z]

It's unavoidable mate ... if you have offered one up for a test you will be dragged into a pissing contest, not other possible outcome IMO.

Having said that, what an awesome looking bit of gear, very impressive.

:bow:

Thank's Nick. I guess only time will tell.

Seedy the FG ones are VERY rough, well the ones that I have seen are :yep:


I really like this otr, even with square edges it would still be better then FG ones as it has an extremely smooth inner surface.


Soooo how much??

Troy :)

$525.00 :thumbs:

[BOMI]

This thread sparked my interest last night.

I was touching up a tune on a baby cammed VE SS Ute that was equiped with a Russo OTR.

Found similar things to Girch, actually made more power with the bonnet shut.
I ran it back to back .. run the car with bonnet open, got out shut the bonnet and ramped it up again.

Bonnet open was 303rwkw
bonnet closed was 305rwkw

cheers

Sean

Hi Sean, interesting info, did you have the big kick arse fan infront of it?

If so the bonnet shut is better due to the funneling and ram air effect, the air is getting puched in sucked in easier so less HP needed to get in = more HP out.

But im sure you new that, just commenting :)

Thanks again,

Troy

Thank's Nick. I guess only time will tell.



$525.00 :thumbs:


Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh- earrrrrrrrrrr-t

Thanks for putting the price anyway mate :cheers:


Troy :)

[boyley]

Guys I received my Russo last night and fitted it up. As I have mentioned elsewhere it aint that easy to fit and takes a little patience and a little advice from Chris @ Russos.

So anyway I took her out for some logging and got back to reveal some interesting MAP reading. Had some readings as high as 103kPa and under WOT rarely saw under 100kPA. That is a 2-3kPa improvement on Orssom logging.

So anyhow off to tune her to suit and then its trackday Saturday.

Cheers Boyley

PS the Orssom gets my vote for ease of fitting and OEM appearance. But I have purchased this for performance gains only.

[mick]

Guys I received my Russo last night and fitted it up. As I have mentioned elsewhere it aint that easy to fit and takes a little patience and a little advice from Chris @ Russos.

So anyway I took her out for some logging and got back to reveal some interesting MAP reading. Had some readings as high as 103kPa and under WOT rarely saw under 100kPA. That is a 2-3kPa improvement on Orssom logging.

So anyhow off to tune her to suit and then its trackday Saturday.

Cheers Boyley

PS the Orssom gets my vote for ease of fitting and OEM appearance. But I have purchased this for performance gains only.

I agree with you that orrssom is easy to fit but oem appearance it has a wrx scoop and orrssom performance printed on it how does that look standard.

[boyley]

I agree with you that orrssom is easy to fit but oem appearance it has a wrx scoop and orrssom performance printed on it how does that look standard.

Sorry for your misunderstanding it looks more OEM than the Russo.

[DaveHAT]

I agree with you that orrssom is easy to fit but oem appearance it has a wrx scoop and orrssom performance printed on it how does that look standard.

Little bit of an over reaction/exaggeration don't you think Mick? :cool:

[mick]

Little bit of an over reaction/exaggeration don't you think Mick? :cool:

Sorry just cant understand when people say its looks oem none of them do IMO

[savvy]

Maybe a future WSID private track day that participants can swap OTR's will be the only way to really test all the OTR's and everyone can evaluate each one for themselves.

[35R]

Considering all the possible setup permutations (between different year models / motors, bolt-on mods) not to mention tuning and weather variables, I don’t think it is possible to produce a 100% accurate OTR comparo. Unless you have controlled test cars in a sealed clean room with surgically calibrated dyno and a bunch of nerds running around with lab coats, weather stations and powerpoint test plans, well, unless you have all that you're going to have people pointing out why the test isnt right. All "losers" will whinge, whine and bitch about holes in the process. Rightly so I suppose, considering how easily it would be to derive dodgy results, albeit unintentionally.

While Intake A might be somewhat better than Intake B (given some magical measuring yardstick) it's most likely your favourite tuner/workshop will negate any inherent theoretical advantage or disadvantage anyway. Some people work better, even with less. All I would say is, let your favourite tuner do what they do, using the products they recommend.

[boyley]

Its really an education process that we enthusiasts are involved in. We over time learn to wade through the crap and make informed decisions developed from input by mates, workshops, guesses, luck you name it and at the end of the day we aim for a goal. Then after saying we are happy with that level of power suddenly two weeks later we are researching hair dryers:noevil:

I dont take any of this stuff personally I just gather evidence and results and make decisions. I have no allegiences to any workshops, all my mechanical items were installed by myself or Takeitez (Dwayne). I copied a lot of your (thats right, you:wave: ) results as they were the best at the time. I am now trying out a new product as through theory and practice its showing better results.

Just a hint I am running lean between 3000 and 3600 rpm and then again at 6100rpm with the new intake fitted. So one might suggest there are some gains to be had.:thumbs:

Anyway Saturday, bar it raining, will reveal all.

[35R]

That is a good point. There are a lot of D.I.Y'ers in our community. So that's a good thing & shared experience/results is even better. But just with this OTR thing, i dont think we can conclusively say x is better than y based on swapping otr's at the track for example. It's good that people will get individual gains of course.

[Delft Maloo]

as you know boyley if its now a bit lean its usually because its getting more air and needs more fuel to match the extra airflow.
This finding is probably the most benefical as it will show where some items might perform better than others, just like extractors, different brands and sizes will show different gains and losses in different rpm areas, 2 otr's might show the same peak power or map kpa but depending on design will show different results at different rpm's.

[SS346]

OK, for the members that are genuinely interested, the tune was touched up on every test, fwiw, the orsome intake caused a richer afr, wich strongly suggests less airflow, the russo was the complete opposite, was very lean, naturally it was fattened up.

all tests were carried out with the air temp sensor in the same position.

http://i272.photobucket.com/albums/jj170/ss346/iatlocation.jpg

i tried to elliminate all variables, im sure i did all of them.

Now, the wankers who think im a bullshit artist and think i am stirring the pot, firstly go fcuk yourselves.

i went out and spent close to $2000 in OTR'S and dyno hiring, i also abused the car wasted fuel and paid to rent a dyno for testing, i then post the results to educate people about which product i found works best. this is the apreciation i get?

like i said previously, if you have the balls, go out and test it yourself, if not then shut up and believe the results.

remember i spent close to $2000 in otr's tested them and publically posted the results, an expensive excersise to say the least. tell me the last time someone did this?

p.s. sop meter is telling me the car feels much stronger, in other words i dont need a dyno to tell me im making more power, in saying that i will race the car with the russo intake, and orsume intake(i will have to go out and spend another $700....... but anyway) let me tell ya, the car WILL GAIN 3-4 MPH, and when it does, a pasting will asked for.......... then again i suppose the "knockers" excuse will be "you drove the car differently, thats why the mph slowed down with the orsome". So im probably wasting my time.

[SS346]

Boyley, i cannot wait to see your results, we have had some wet weather in sydney, obviously havnot been able to race the ute, but i tell ya, im hanging to race!

[Delft Maloo]

hey girch, dont stress mate you know what you done and are happy with the results and thats all that matters, if others dont believe you well thats their problem, you offered up you efforts and all you can say is at least you tried to help.
i beleive even if 100 people done this test and all came to the same result, it still wouldnt change open some people's eyes.

[SS346]

i beleive even if 100 people done this test and all came to the same result, it still wouldnt change open some people's eyes.

yeah too true mate, i suppose its all about the marketing strategy................ red bull absolutely shits all over "V" drink in sales, but "V" tastes better :dunno: if you market a product (with some internet puppets backing you) well and long enough, it will become the best on the market. "they sell heaps of them, must be good" but which one avtually tastes better????????

[hsvredsled]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I seem to take a fairly simplistic view on things.

As stated in Post #50.

Does MORE air equate to increased HP?
Does COLDER air equate to increased HP?

If the answer to both the above is 'Yes', then no need to hook up to a donk/dyno which can be influenced by tunes, throttle etc.

Simply do a air flow test and a temp test on the various intakes. Controlled conditions, which OTRCAI flows faster and colder?

[SS346]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I seem to take a fairly simplistic view on things.

As stated in Post #50.

Does MORE air equate to increased HP?
Does COLDER air equate to increased HP?

If the answer to both the above is 'Yes', then no need to hook up to a donk/dyno which can be influenced by tunes, throttle etc.

Simply do a air flow test and a temp test on the various intakes. Controlled conditions, which OTRCAI flows faster and colder?

yes and yes

[NickS]

... if you market a product (with some internet puppets backing you) well and long enough, it will become the best on the market. "they sell heaps of them, must be good" but which one avtually tastes better????????

It's funny ... I wouldn't have thought a completely "independent" test would require personal attacks against one of the products / the people that use it.

:hmmm:

You're right, it doesn't matter what you say I wouldn't believe you. I have never seen you post anything that doesn't involve a) and attack on Marrano's / Sonny / any product they use and b) you telling everyone how damn good you are.

Shit your crap is boring ...

[35R]

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I seem to take a fairly simplistic view on things.

As stated in Post #50.

Does MORE air equate to increased HP?
Does COLDER air equate to increased HP?

If the answer to both the above is 'Yes', then no need to hook up to a donk/dyno which can be influenced by tunes, throttle etc.

Simply do a air flow test and a temp test on the various intakes. Controlled conditions, which OTRCAI flows faster and colder?

Surely a flow test isnt going to emulate underbonnet conditions / how it gets air, let alone temps of that air etc. Would be interesting though.

[WOMBIE]

And because i can read between the lines,and i usually do,I agree with NickS in this instance.....don't always agree with his opinion but i haven't yet told him or others for that matter to....well you get my point!

I'm with the red dude and his simplistic view (you must be old like me :rolleyes: ) air flow and air temp test,on a stock engine for that matter and a stock tune without a "touch up",would have been a fairer test for me because imho there's way many variables at the track to make a fair comparison regarding these things.The under bonnet test wouldn't be the be all and end all but it would have been interesting to say the least.

I only wish that for someone to tell me to "go fuck myself" just because my opinion differs from theirs,they could at least have the balls to say it to my face.....ffs i don't even know you :confused: I might shit stir a lot but that's the extent of it.....more than happy to be proven wrong here!


Have a nice day!

[SS346]

It's funny ... I wouldn't have thought a completely "independent" test would require personal attacks against one of the products / the people that use it


where are the personal attacks? :confused: if you call the fact that i said "the knockers can go fcuk themselves" is a PERSONAL attack (themselves because of the 's' added to the end of themselve it means more than two) i fell sorry for you.

:hmmm:

You're right, it doesn't matter what you say I wouldn't believe you. I have never seen you post anything that doesn't involve a) and attack on Marrano's / Sonny / any product they use and b) you telling everyone how damn good you are.

Shit your crap is boring ...


firstly, i could not care less what you beleive pal, your opinions are only based upon a brainwashed , cult following polisher............. keep polishing.

an attack on your mentore? where is that again?? the users of the orsome attacked me, more so at ls1, i replied accordingly, i dont see sams performance's customers getting on here defending the csv otr, same with the csv customers :confused: wake up pal, your paranoia is getting the better of you.

telling everyone how good i am................. i tried three products that i dont own or did not endorse, post the results of my findings and you reckon im blowing hot air up me own ass?? get over it mate.


I am the one who pushed a stock ls1 with a turbo into a 10.1@ 137mph

i also made a junker run 9.2 @ 148

oh and another stock motor on nitrous run 10.5 @133

and another 418ci ls1 run 10.2 @ 130mph.


FIGJAM :lol:

[NickS]

firstly, i could not care less what you beleive pal, your opinions are only based upon a brainwashed , cult following polisher............. keep polishing.

... get over it mate.

I'm not your pal ... I'm not your mate ... never have been / never will be. Now in your own words "go fu#k yourself".

:flip2:

I don't give a shit if you don't care what I think, the facts are that you are not "independent", you are a trouble maker, you are a shit stirrer and you are a dickhead. Now everyone else knows it ... so I'm happy.

:D

[SS346]

I'm not your pal ... I'm not your mate ... never have been / never will be. Now in your own words "go fu#k yourself".

:flip2:

I don't give a shit if you don't care what I think, the facts are that you are not "independent", you are a trouble maker, you are a shit stirrer and you are a dickhead. Now everyone else knows it ... so I'm happy.

:D

Yeah good reply, not much thought went into it though. i must confess i work for russo csv and orsome, so yeah im not independant. :lol:

Hey im not the one who polishes my mentore and hsv105, so whos the dickhead now????

anyway im off to take part in a horizontal folk dance with my new Russo OTR, the most powerfull otr in the market. :lol:


p.s hsv105, if you read this, no pun inteneded, nicks just tries to hang off your left testical, which really amuses me. :lol:

[NickS]

Yeah good reply, not much thought went into it though. i must confess i work for russo csv and orsome, so yeah im not independant. :lol:

Hey im not the one who polishes my mentore and hsv105, so whos the dickhead now????

anyway im off to take part in a horizontal folk dance with my new Russo OTR, the most powerfull otr in the market. :lol:


p.s hsv105, if you read this, no pun inteneded, nicks just tries to hang off your left testical, which really amuses me. :lol:

At least you have shown your true colours now ... you start these threads pretending to be neutral and impartial but it's all crap.

I don't polish anyone, I give credit where credit is due ... if I "polish" Mark and Sonny is because they have done something worth acknowledging, same reason I give credit to plenty of other guys when they achieve something. Read a few more posts on LS1 dickhead, Mark and I have given each other plenty of stick over the years.

Finally ... use the friggen spell check, why would anyone take you seriously when you can't even string a sentence together without 10 errors.

Enjoy the rest of your day "polishing" yourself ...

:buffer:

[boyley]

Drags are off down here due to rain, recheduled for the 13th Dec, so the test is on hold:(

[Delft Maloo]

Girch and nick, you both have differeing opinions and you both agree on that so can we just leave it at that and let this personal shit go please.

[VYMaloo]

At the end of the day most of us have an OTR and like most things some work better than others , who cares most of us rarely use them to there capacity anyway as they are on our daily driven cars .

[DaveHAT]

At the end of the day most of us have an OTR and like most things some work better than others , who cares most of us rarely use them to there capacity anyway as they are on our daily driven cars .

Thank you Ross ... and FFS let's just leave it at that.

THEY ALL WORK !!!

Everyone reading/involved in this is posting on LS1 anyway so as opposed to dragging this forum down with the same boring shit twice ... let the wheelbarrow pushing stay over on LS1 where it belongs.

:headbang:

[11QTR]

Drags are off down here due to rain, recheduled for the 13th Dec, so the test is on hold:(


Hey LUXO6L


Did you end up doin the test?

Thanks
David

[boyley]

I ran the car on the 20th Dec in warm conditions and returned a best time of 12.38, there is very little difference between the two with the Orssom returning a 12.319 in cooler conditions. Whichever way you go the gains are sunstantial IMO.

[SS346]

I ran the car on the 20th Dec in warm conditions and returned a best time of 12.38, there is very little difference between the two with the Orssom returning a 12.319 in cooler conditions. Whichever way you go the gains are sunstantial IMO.


what was the mph difference? and what was the temperature,humidity ?

[Josh]

If anyone else does OTR testing I have one of mine that can be used.

Josh

MetalCraft Marine