Garry's red VT track car

[ghz28]

Hi guys,

well, finally back from a very busy international business trip, and collected my car from the painter.....damn, it looks too good to go playing track days in now.....lol

The painter completely renovated the old SS front bar and side skirts to new condition, so I am taking them off and putting the "used" HSV front and side skirts on for the first outing next Tuesday, would be criminal to get stone chips in the newly painted ones. Still going to be a few weeks before a replacement supercar front and side skirts are ready.

Fitted the new harness today, and hope to have it fully ready for action over the weekend.

Took some photos.....looks the same as the blue one, but red.....

Will post some up after I resize them.

Almost everything apart for the body shell has been transferred across from the blue car, engine, gearbox, diff, brakes, suspension, dash, rear wing, rear bumper, steering wheel etc etc.

New larger extractors, 1 7/8" instead of 1 3/4" fitted and retuned, picked up an additional 24 RWHP and 41 ft/lb torque.

First outing is next Tuesday for the Timeattack day at QR.

So here we go again.....track day car mark two.

[Delft Maloo]

sounds great garry, you better get them pics up as my imagination is working over time atm.

[GTS Listy]

Good to see you back and into it.

Can not wait for the picks.

[Dan@dms]

:gotpics:..

[toey]

sounds like a go'er.....and we all no red ones go faster

[ghz28]

Here are the first batch of photos.

gh

[ghz28]

Here is the last 5 for today


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322More....

[ghz28]

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327

[Dan@dms]

Looks great. awesome shine to it

[Justin]

Looks fantastic Garry, great work!

[seldo]

I like your work Garry :)

[GTS Listy]

:driving:
You are not wrong it looks too good to race. Dam that is some shine and got to love that big ass wing out the back there.

[bluegem]

That is some serious cage work!
Hope you dont need to use it!
Congrats on building a really well presented race car...its nice to see!
I hate when people show up with rough dirty cars!

[2 cylinders shy]

The red looks much better anyway!
I like the black wheels with the red two, not that im biased

Interested to see how you go on tuesday?

[2 cylinders shy]

Excuse my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the sheet of metal running across the rear bar??
Also is that a oil cooler where the old air box was?

[ova400]

Looks great, So is a time attack on next Tuesday, might pop out and have a look if I find the time, are you going out in the morning session or afternoon session??

[FatBoy]

Back on the horse - good stuff mate, congrats !

[ghz28]

Yeah a little bit of anxiety creeping in as I continue working on getting it ready. Not worried about going back to the track as such, just I don't know how it will handle, sort of back to the beginning, and I have changed the rear sway bar too, hoping to dial out some of the oversteer mid corner.

So it will be a tentative start me thinks.....lol





The red looks much better anyway!
I like the black wheels with the red two, not that im biased

Interested to see how you go on tuesday?

[ghz28]

Being a genuine supercar rear bar, there should be a drop tank hanging down there, with a normal car there would be an ugly bit of the rear bumper support panel there, so it is just a trim to improve the aesthetics.

Yes that is the engine oil cooler, it has a big fan on it, and we will be feeding it air from the inner guard area, where that hole comes up.

gh


Excuse my ignorance, but what is the purpose of the sheet of metal running across the rear bar??
Also is that a oil cooler where the old air box was?

[seldo]

Yeah a little bit of anxiety creeping in as I continue working on getting it ready. Not worried about going back to the track as such, just I don't know how it will handle, sort of back to the beginning, and I have changed the rear sway bar too, hoping to dial out some of the oversteer mid corner.

So it will be a tentative start me thinks.....lol Sounds like a bit of roll-oversteer Garry? Is it squatting onto the rear tyre mid-way through the corner? A bit tighter in the rear bar and/or shocks should help.

[ghz28]

It looks like two of us will be using the car on Tuesday, I hope to have a pro driver run it during the morning session to help dial in the suspension and basically make sure it is safe and sound.

I have already run it up to over 280k on a genuinely closed road and it was fine in a straight line, just no idea on how it will go in corners yet.....better to have a pro at the wheel for the first time.

If he is available, then I will be there all day, if not, then I will be doing the afternoon competitive sessions.

gh



Looks great, So is a time attack on next Tuesday, might pop out and have a look if I find the time, are you going out in the morning session or afternoon session??

[ghz28]

To those who made general compliments replies without questions that needed answering.....thanks heaps.....I am looking forward to getting it back out on track and having a go.

And I hope to not need to use all the new cage, harness and helmet that I bought after the crash.

gh

[DaveHAT]

That looks damn tidy Garry.

Please forgive my ignorance but ... is the old VT repaired or a clean slate based around a VT Clubsport? :confused:

The blue one was good but the red with the black highlights looks much better IMO.

Hoping all goes well when pedalled on its maiden voyage. Good luck.

:cheers:

[ghz28]

Well in reality it is a different body shell with all the old bits fitted, except for the cage which is new....of course....its welded in.

The body of the blue car was too badly damaged to be economical to repair as a registered car, if it was just a race car it would have been OK.

I will be selling off the R8 interior, body kit, engine and gearbox, brakes etc to help recoup some of the expense. I basically didn't use anything from it apart from the shell.

gh



That looks damn tidy Garry.

Please forgive my ignorance but ... is the old VT repaired or a clean slate based around a VT Clubsport? :confused:

The blue one was good but the red with the black highlights looks much better IMO.

Hoping all goes well when pedalled on its maiden voyage. Good luck.

:cheers:

[2 cylinders shy]

Thanks for answering my dumbass questions guys :wave:

[ghz28]

Yeah not sure Seldo, concensus is that it had too much rear bar, and was perhaps a bit too flat to transfer load correctly at the rear.

So we have softened the rear bar (may even remove it completely) and will use the four way adjustable shocks for trimming by varying the low speed bump and rebound settings.

gh




Sounds like a bit of roll-oversteer Garry? Is it squatting onto the rear tyre mid-way through the corner? A bit tighter in the rear bar and/or shocks should help.

[GTS Listy]

Yeah not sure Seldo, concensus is that it had too much rear bar, and was perhaps a bit too flat to transfer load correctly at the rear.

So we have softened the rear bar (may even remove it completely) and will use the four way adjustable shocks for trimming by varying the low speed bump and rebound settings.

gh

What I would do for overstear. :breakdance: :breakdance:

Sounds like you have it under control Gary. That is some pretty cool fine tuning right there and even to notice that sort of a change would be great.
Maybe I need to let someone take mine for a few laps for a second opinion.

The people i give a spin too all they say is crap it corners nice, those brake are f&^n awesome etc etc. I kind of know that but not the finer points.

Look forward to hearing how the new ride goes tomorrow. :driving:

[HSV271]

Man the looks awesome Garry... well done. :thumbs:

:drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

[seldo]

Yeah not sure Seldo, concensus is that it had too much rear bar, and was perhaps a bit too flat to transfer load correctly at the rear.

So we have softened the rear bar (may even remove it completely) and will use the four way adjustable shocks for trimming by varying the low speed bump and rebound settings.

ghA bit hard to say just on a couple of lines of text here, as distinct from seeing it in action, but I would have said that if it's too tight in the rear it will slide into the corner dirt-track style, whereas if it's roll-oversteer (too soft) it will be sort of delayed action. Any way - a bit of suck-it-and-see will soon sort it out.
Have fun. :D

[.charged.]

What I would do for overstear. :breakdance: :breakdance:

Sounds like you have it under control Gary. That is some pretty cool fine tuning right there and even to notice that sort of a change would be great.
Maybe I need to let someone take mine for a few laps for a second opinion.

The people i give a spin too all they say is crap it corners nice, those brake are f&^n awesome etc etc. I kind of know that but not the finer points.

Look forward to hearing how the new ride goes tomorrow. :driving:

get someone who can steer better than you is the key, I was running round doing 1.26-1.27s round Mallala, the nephew co entered a race meet with me and did a 1.23, I thought I was driving it as hard as I could but it turned out I was being soft :( he told me to brake at certain points and FFS hold it flat ita tiny 1600cc. Im now down to his times and its all from the kick up the bum from the times he did.

Oversteer==== clutch kick :)

[ghz28]

Well despite it raining heavily all day in Brisbane, out at QR the rain stopped around 1030 and by lunchtime a dry line was appearing, by the afternoon session, the racing surface was primarily dry, with a few patches of water, oil and water on the entry to turn 6, and water in the dipper and crossover.

So the track was about 70% dry and wet in the corners....nice hey.

Driver was a bit anxious at first, did about the first 10 laps before getting into it. Car was good, more stable with the rear bar change, and it was turning in pretty hard and much easier to hit the correct apex point then I remember the blue one being at the end. Missed the slicks though, RE55s although a good semi, are not a patch on even small 235 section slicks, most noticable under braking and mid corner lateral grip.

Track temp was quite low, under 30C all day, a far cry from Feburary when it was in the high 50s to 60s. That meant tyres didn't go off so we could do lots of laps.

I only ran on the Sprint circuit, where I have a best time of 59.x. Started out with 68-69 second laps for the first two outings, and by then the track had dried and I felt confident again.

Next outing ran a best of mid 62s, and on the final outing I managed a 61.8, and given the mixed conditions, the oil and water in turn 6 that made it treacherous all day, etc etc.....I am very happy with that time under the circumstances. Car felt good all the time, got hot once, might need a genuine radiator, I think the one in it is an aftermarket one, never had heat issues with the blue car with new genuine radiator.

Gave the HANS device a tryout too, took a little bit of getting used to, you become held in by that device rather than the harness over your shoulders. A little restrictive turning sideways to look down say behind the gearshift lever, but not at all restrictive for normal driving. Guess if it were it would not be so popular. And it does not make it any harder to get in and out of the car with it on, so that is good too.

Long post....but that is about all the news in one hit....

Cheers,


Garry

[GTS Listy]

Good to see Gary. All good. I was listengin on the news and they said some places got 350mm of rain today. That is a hell of allot.

Good to see the car is going well

[Scotty]

I will be selling off the R8 interior, body kit, engine and gearbox, brakes etc to help recoup some of the expense. I basically didn't use anything from it apart from the shell.

gh

Have you started selling yet?

[nqcv8]

Have you started selling yet?

Some of it is spoken for :chuckle:

[nqcv8]

Well despite it raining heavily all day in Brisbane, out at QR the rain stopped around 1030 and by lunchtime a dry line was appearing, by the afternoon session, the racing surface was primarily dry, with a few patches of water, oil and water on the entry to turn 6, and water in the dipper and crossover.

So the track was about 70% dry and wet in the corners....nice hey.

Driver was a bit anxious at first, did about the first 10 laps before getting into it. Car was good, more stable with the rear bar change, and it was turning in pretty hard and much easier to hit the correct apex point then I remember the blue one being at the end. Missed the slicks though, RE55s although a good semi, are not a patch on even small 235 section slicks, most noticable under braking and mid corner lateral grip.

Track temp was quite low, under 30C all day, a far cry from Feburary when it was in the high 50s to 60s. That meant tyres didn't go off so we could do lots of laps.

I only ran on the Sprint circuit, where I have a best time of 59.x. Started out with 68-69 second laps for the first two outings, and by then the track had dried and I felt confident again.

Next outing ran a best of mid 62s, and on the final outing I managed a 61.8, and given the mixed conditions, the oil and water in turn 6 that made it treacherous all day, etc etc.....I am very happy with that time under the circumstances. Car felt good all the time, got hot once, might need a genuine radiator, I think the one in it is an aftermarket one, never had heat issues with the blue car with new genuine radiator.

Gave the HANS device a tryout too, took a little bit of getting used to, you become held in by that device rather than the harness over your shoulders. A little restrictive turning sideways to look down say behind the gearshift lever, but not at all restrictive for normal driving. Guess if it were it would not be so popular. And it does not make it any harder to get in and out of the car with it on, so that is good too.

Long post....but that is about all the news in one hit....

Cheers,


Garry

You wouldnt listen when I told you earlier in the day to get it off the trailer... wasted good track time :dance:

[ghz28]

Well its about time for a bit of an update on what has happened with the car in the past few months.

The suspension has been professionally set up, put in a very experienced driver and a phone call to Murray Coote had suggestions for change.....very minor, and the pro driver's lap times at Morgan Park fell from 74.x seconds to 70.1 seconds immediately but we only had time for a few laps and then the track was closed for the day.

Subsequently my times at QR for the sprint circuit and clubman circuit have fallen by about 2.5 seconds on both of them. 59.1 seconds for the sprint and 61.x for the clubman. And the car is much nicer to drive, the mid corner push is gone as is the initial turn-in oversteer.

Went out for a general practice day a couple of weeks ago and ran a string of easy 83s and 84s on the national circuit. My previous best was a high 81 and pushing very hard, so a big improvement there.

As per another thread, I have recently got a heap of data logging sensors to add to the Racepak IQ3 dash, and hope to get that fitted and sorted over the holiday season. Also a few engine improvement parts have arrived, and just ordered a dry sump system which should be here end of next week.

Last round of sprints for the season is next Tuesday, I am leading the NA V8 section and hoping for a good finish to the season.

Had the car on a set of corner scales today, and the results of that will follow in another post.

[ghz28]

As per above, bought a set of corner scales last week and today got the car on them for the first time.

Found that my full fuel racing weight is still 1705kg, and without me 1629kg.

Using the weights with me in race suit onboard, full fuel and oil etc with everything else as per normal here are the weights.

FL=434
FR=497
RL=376
RR=398

As you can see, there is quite a bias towards the driver side of the vehicle at the moment, but at least now I know how much needs to be moved around to try to balance it up a bit more evenly. Battery is still in the front, so just moving that to the floor behind the passenger seat will help a lot, as will putting the dry sump reservior in the boot on the passenger side.

Only good thing is that in SE QLD all our track run clockwise and the majority of corners are right handers so at least the bias to weight on the inside is not all bad.

What sort of results have any of you others had with corner weights?

[choppo]

Great stuff there Gaz - especially picking up a massive 2 sec. I went and found my real old corner weight readings (they would probably be out by now) but interesting how close they are to yours

FL=434 451
FR=497 483
RL=376 376
RR=398 400

1710kg incl a 100kg driver


They mentioned to me the important figure is the cross weight i.e FR + RL and viccy versa. Mine was 859 and 851 which was pretty good.

[ghz28]

Hi Choppo,

Yeah that is pretty close hey. I take it you have a/c removed etc?

I will be doing that stuff over the break, need to try to get another 100kg out of it somehow, a/c will be going so I can mount the dry sump scavenge pump in its place. Most of the dash out, just leave enough to mount original dash back in....required in my class of sprints....and then add some bars across the front of the cage to mount steering etc from. See, adding weight back in......damn.

Also worked out that I can mount about 4kg of fuel system and not need to run a full tank of fuel, so take out 30kg of fuel or more and add 4kg, that is better.....lol

Cheers,

Garry

ps....I was hoping to bring my car down to Wakefield Park for the private day, but I have been too sick of late to make such a long driving trip unfortunately. Would have been good to have a go at a track with more than 5 or 6 corners on it. Still thinking I might fly down to Sydney and rent a car and come down as a spectator, depends on how surgery goes next week.

[choppo]

Hi Choppo,

Yeah that is pretty close hey. I take it you have a/c removed etc?

I will be doing that stuff over the break, need to try to get another 100kg out of it somehow, a/c will be going so I can mount the dry sump scavenge pump in its place. Most of the dash out, just leave enough to mount original dash back in....required in my class of sprints....and then add some bars across the front of the cage to mount steering etc from. See, adding weight back in......damn.

Yeah ive got all the non-essentials removed like A/C etc. Fortunately you have a VT which is a different chassis than mine (lighter) which should allow you to get to a lower weight than mine if you rip everything out. Its the old problem though as you mention, as you remove stuff, you end up putting stuff back in LOL. Heres a little trick i did the other month... remove the electric arial, windscreen wiper bottle full, ALL the door/boot/bonnet seals - thats 10KG!!!!!!

Also worked out that I can mount about 4kg of fuel system and not need to run a full tank of fuel, so take out 30kg of fuel or more and add 4kg, that is better.....lol
Now this is of great interest to me too.... something ive got to try over the off season too. I have no idea how much fuel i run, it wouldn't be heaps BUT im only guessing from the std fuel gauge.
Any more detail on what you are going to do???

ps....I was hoping to bring my car down to Wakefield Park for the private day, but I have been too sick of late to make such a long driving trip unfortunately. Would have been good to have a go at a track with more than 5 or 6 corners on it. Still thinking I might fly down to Sydney and rent a car and come down as a spectator, depends on how surgery goes next week
I might be with you... i think my car will be off the road BUT ill still go down either way - see what happens. Might even hire a car myself and give it a run LOL! Keep in touch closer to the time as im not that far from the airport so can catch a lift there and back.
P.S. all the best next week

[Dan@dms]

I might be with you... i think my car will be off the road BUT ill still go down either way - see what happens. Might even hire a car myself and give it a run LOL! Keep in touch closer to the time as im not that far from the airport so can catch a lift there and back.
P.S. all the best next week

AWESOME!! Enter the rodeo into the Ultimate Ute Showdown!

[seldo]

Yeah ive got all the non-essentials removed like A/C etc. Fortunately you have a VT which is a different chassis than mine (lighter) which should allow you to get to a lower weight than mine if you rip everything out. Its the old problem though as you mention, as you remove stuff, you end up putting stuff back in LOL. Heres a little trick i did the other month... remove the electric arial, windscreen wiper bottle full, ALL the door/boot/bonnet seals - thats 10KG!!!!!!
It's amazing what you can save in little dribs and drabs if you are conscientious about it. I always used to have a 20l bucket next to the car and every time I pulled something off, I would look at whether it all needed to go back again, and chuck any surplus in the bucket. By the time you have a 20l bucket full of bolts, nuts, washers, screws, small brackets, wires, seals etc, you will be amazed - I bet you cannot even lift it!
Racing Mini legend Peter 'Skinny' Manton was fanatical about it, even to the point of drilling bolts hollow and cutting nuts in half - washers didn't exist on his cars...
It pays dividends. Every KG you can save, is a KG that you don't have to accelerate, brake, and change direction.

[choppo]

It's amazing what you can save in little dribs and drabs if you are conscientious about it. I always used to have a 20l bucket next to the car and every time I pulled something off, I would look at whether it all needed to go back again, and chuck any surplus in the bucket. By the time you have a 20l bucket full of bolts, nuts, washers, screws, small brackets, wires, seals etc, you will be amazed - I bet you cannot even lift it!
Racing Mini legend Peter 'Skinny' Manton was fanatical about it, even to the point of drilling bolts hollow and cutting nuts in half - washers didn't exist on his cars...
It pays dividends. Every KG you can save, is a KG that you don't have to accelerate, brake, and change direction.
Another interesting thing i worked out a couple weeks ago is an extra 60ltrs or so is worth just under 1sec around OP Short Circuit. So 1 sec per 60kg for me :shock:

[ghz28]

Thought I would move this bit to my thread rather than clutter up Paul's.

Ahh ...Garry..Then you aren't using it to its full potential. You should go out in practise, do a couple of laps, come in, check the temps, adjust pressures or shocks, and go again. Use it! They are great things and in half an hour of friggin' around in practise, you should have gained at least half a second. Like I have said - best sorting gadget you can get. Give me a yell next time you go out...
__________________
Old A grumpy old bugga who's been there and done that ...

Seldo the reason I haven't done anything like that is that I simply do not have the experience to even really know what the car is doing in the different phases of a lap. And as the guy who assisted last time said, the car is basically failry nicely set up and it responds to the slightest change in settings as it should.

The change that netted Dean Tighe something like a 3 seconds per lap improvement at Morgan Park was just 2 clicks on the low speed bump on the front. And again the one that gained me over a second at QR on the Sprint circuit was -2 clicks on the rear low speed bump. Both times an experienced driver was making the observations of what was happening, I knew it wasn't quite right, but not in enough detail for the suspension guy to decide what to change.

Imagine how bad it could become if a ham fisted uneducated oaf like me got in there changing things......I hate to think. So for now I will have to rely on all you experts to help sort things out. And I am always listening......

Garry

[seldo]

Thought I would move this bit to my thread rather than clutter up Paul's.

Ahh ...Garry..Then you aren't using it to its full potential. You should go out in practise, do a couple of laps, come in, check the temps, adjust pressures or shocks, and go again. Use it! They are great things and in half an hour of friggin' around in practise, you should have gained at least half a second. Like I have said - best sorting gadget you can get. Give me a yell next time you go out...
__________________
Old A grumpy old bugga who's been there and done that ...

Seldo the reason I haven't done anything like that is that I simply do not have the experience to even really know what the car is doing in the different phases of a lap. And as the guy who assisted last time said, the car is basically failry nicely set up and it responds to the slightest change in settings as it should.

The change that netted Dean Tighe something like a 3 seconds per lap improvement at Morgan Park was just 2 clicks on the low speed bump on the front. And again the one that gained me over a second at QR on the Sprint circuit was -2 clicks on the rear low speed bump. Both times an experienced driver was making the observations of what was happening, I knew it wasn't quite right, but not in enough detail for the suspension guy to decide what to change.

Imagine how bad it could become if a ham fisted uneducated oaf like me got in there changing things......I hate to think. So for now I will have to rely on all you experts to help sort things out. And I am always listening......

GarryFair call Garry. But you must also understand that for you to learn what affects what, you must have a bit of a play. As I said in another thread, practise is crucial, and the more you go around, the better, easier it will get. Now, while you are out there for the day, have a play - if you are unhappy that it's maybe understeering a bit, have a think about why that may be, and then have a fiddle - turn the front shocks down a notch or two, and see what eventuates. If it didn't have the required affect, go a bit more, or try the other direction.. Fiddle with tyre pressures, corner weights, alignment etc
Most important though with all this stuff - write it down! Have a vehicle "set-up-book" where you record absolutely everything.
Date: 14/12/09
Track; QR
Temp: 34deg
Humidity: 85%
Windy/Calm: Slight wind
Last rained: 6 weeks ago
FR Springs: Kings 600
Rear Springs: Kings 350
Fr Ride height: 305mm
Rear ride height: 320mm
Fr Shocks: Koni Yellow
Fr setting: 6
Rear shocks: Koni Supersport
Rear setting: 3
Front alignment: Camber-5, Toe +2, Caster +12
Rear alignment: Etc
Front Bar:
Setting:
Rear bar:
Setting:
Front Tyres Brand/size/age/wear/ pressure
Rear tyres ditto:
Tyre Temps after 5 laps:
LF: Out/middle/In
RF: ditto
LR: ditto
RR: ditto
Fuel: Brand/quantity on board
Brake-fluid: type
etc etc.

Then, every time you change something, make a note of exactly what you did, and what result you experienced. And if you change it again - write it down - immediately.
Then, you can sit down and analyse what you did and what result it gave you, and when you come back again next time you can go straight to the same settings from get-go.

[choppo]

Most important though with all this stuff - write it down! Have a vehicle "set-up-book" where you record absolutely everything.
Then, every time you change something, make a note of exactly what you did, and what result you experienced. And if you change it again - write it down - immediately.
Then, you can sit down and analyse what you did and what result it gave you, and when you come back again next time you can go straight to the same settings from get-go.
It's such a simple thing BUT sooo difficult. I/we write it down, but on bits of paper, Excel spread sheets, on the wall, on the floor LOL.

Anyone have a published sheet somewhere that has everything on it? Any good 'setup' log books hanging around for sale that people have had success with?

[seldo]

It's such a simple thing BUT sooo difficult. I/we write it down, but on bits of paper, Excel spread sheets, on the wall, on the floor LOL.

Anyone have a published sheet somewhere that has everything on it? Any good 'setup' log books hanging around for sale that people have had success with?Chop - I always just carried a tough old Samsonite-style briefcase to the track that carried licences, delicate stuff like timers, probes, pyrometer, tyre gauge, (always use the same one!) watches etc, and also a simple school-kids' exercise book that we used to record all this stuff in.
As long as you head each page with the Track, and date, it doesn't have to be too flash.
For pyrometer readings I drew a plan view of the car's 4 tyre contact patches (just 4 rectangles) and then wrote the temps across each box as they were read-out. (Always from outside to inside).
Then you go out and do 3 or 4 laps and compare times/feel/desireabilty, and come in and do it all again.

[ghz28]

Well what an eventful day that was. Lucky to come home with an intact race car, had an oil cooler hose come off under the bridge at Lakeside and luckily the driver was able to keep it on the bitumen until going straight ahead off hungry corner into the grass.

Watching your car come over the crest of the hill in a ball of oil flame, then going past you spinning still at 140+ km/h is not something you want to do ever, and I certainly hope never again. Interestingly the driver was not aware of the oil leak and subsequent huge fireball behind him, and was correcting for a suspected blown right rear tyre. Also luckily he had caught up to a slow MX5 approaching the bridge so was only going around 165 km/h instead of his previous speeds of nudging 200 through there.

Anyway, the result of the day's testing is that I have basically two alternatives on where to go with the vehicle setup from here. Both involve further weight reduction so just take that as a given.

1 Increase width of rear tyre by 40-50mm (280 porsche cup tyre for example)
which will allow the current setup to handle more power and higher corner speeds. Subsequently a slightly faster car all round

2 Be happy with current performance level, which is pretty high for a sprint type car, we are talking 1:19/20 at QR, 59/60 secs at Lakeside etc then just make some subtle spring rate changes to the rear for more grip with the 235 or 240 size tyres I currently use. Slight improvements would come from both the spring change and weight reduction.

My preference of course is to go FASTER......wouldn't it be for all of us! But the cost may not be worth it. I need to see what is needed to fit the 280mm tyres under the rear, hoping someone in Brisbane has some old PC 280 tyres I might borrow and then try to find a wheel that will support them without re-engineering the whole rear of the car.

Other than that it will be option 2, get some springs, new PC 240mm slicks and go from there. Also want to try 265 profile RE55s for the rear as a street series option.

Other than that, the drivers suggested no other changes, the car is very stable and easy to drive at the limit of adhesion and very predictable approaching that limit. I am very happy with that, for a $40k odd vehicle.

Now just some changes for reliability and durability to be done, and I already have two pro drivers willing to run in a team at the Queensland 500 if it gets to go this year.

[bluegem]

Chop - I always just carried a tough old Samsonite-style briefcase to the track that carried licences, delicate stuff like timers, probes, pyrometer, tyre gauge, (always use the same one!) watches etc, and also a simple school-kids' exercise book that we used to record all this stuff in.
As long as you head each page with the Track, and date, it doesn't have to be too flash.
For pyrometer readings I drew a plan view of the car's 4 tyre contact patches (just 4 rectangles) and then wrote the temps across each box as they were read-out. (Always from outside to inside).
Then you go out and do 3 or 4 laps and compare times/feel/desireabilty, and come in and do it all again.


We always carry a briefcase.....Licences, log books, spare numbers....tyre pressure gauge...stopwatch...spare sticker sheets....although i lent it to a guy at IRACE and didnt get it back.....and our data book.......funnily enough most of the time it never gets used...i like doing it by the seat of my oants so to speak......
Its fun making a car that isnt fast go fast!

[GTS Listy]

Garry, I have sat the 270 porshe cup tyres under the car and the width is not that bad were a guard roll and small guard pump would work. The problem lies in the profile as they are such a high tyres that you would have to adjust the suspension height higher to fit the high profile. If they come in a lower profile then the would be the way to go
The tyre next to it is a 235

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Slicks001.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Slicks002.jpg

Also with the RE55 the 265 will fit pretty easy front and rear with the right offset wheels. Remember they do measure 280mm actual width

[ghz28]

Well a bit of an update on the engine blowup from a couple of weeks ago.

Had a good look at the stripped down engine bits the other day and a bit more today.

The damage was occasioned by a broken rod, which failed at 6750 rpm, at the top end, then the remains rotated around for quite a few seconds before breaking off at the big end. Before that though it punched a hole in the block, right through the oil gallery which emptied the sump in a matter of seconds or less I guess.

All but one of the big end bearings have been picked up, but strangely none of the main bearings have any visible damage. The piston of course is cracked right across the middle, and the remains of the rod look like a piece of modern art.

The sump is OK, with just a bit of internal impact damage. The windage tray is torn apart though. Thankfully, the only damage to the heads is one bent valve and a very minor impact mark from part of the broken piston.

At this stage the bottom end has been replaced, thanks to being able to source a complete L76 replacement crate engine. Rods and cranks have been replaced with high end aftermarket items and apart from that it is going back together in the next couple of days.

Because the cam was impact damaged, it is being replaced with a slightly bigger one I brought back from the US last trip. It is just a low 230s with .617/.600 lift vs the older mid 220s with .59 lift.So need a new dyno tune to be done.

At the same time we will add double row timing chain, 25% underdrive, and a heap of extra datalogging bits.

Extra data logging will include:
front and rear brake pressure logging
throttle position
steering angle
yaw angle
oil temp
oil pressure
water temp
fuel pressure
AFR

EGT to follow at a later time, not decided on 8 or just 2 EGT sensors.

So I hope that the car will be driveable this weekend so I can do a bit of a run-in outing for a couple of hundred kilometres before our first Timeattack day on 11 February.

Oh and the other news I am going to try the new Yokohama A050 tyres for this event. I got them and did a heat cycle on them on the day of the engine failure. They "felt" as good as the Dunlop slicks I usually run for non-timeattack days, only time will tell. Pun intended :)

Rumour has it that they are very good tyres for the type of day we run in our timeattacks up here.

Garry

[GTS Listy]

Some damage there Garry. Good to see it is going back togeather well.
I have been reading up on those A050 and yep the reports are pretty good. I think Dunc said people were lapping quick as slicks.

Good luck with the new combo and hopefully some clear few years of clean and hassle free racing.

[ghz28]

Well a successful first out run for the new engine, went to the Timeattack meeting at QR on 11th Feb, as it turns out, the exact anniversary date of my big crash last year.

Engine ran well, and my times were within .4 sec of my best ever times on the Sprint and Clubman circuits, despite using only last year's RE55s and not the A050s. I decided that I would hold out on using the A050s unless I needed them to try to run a faster lap to lead my class. Can't get my head around the possibility of $30-$40 unnecessary use worth of tyres per lap without tyre sponsorship. That is if the Yokohama rep's warning of only 6-8 heat cycles out of the A050s.

Unfortunately or fortunately, I also had engine data logging installed, and it told me that despite the L76 style engine sump, which does not cause the factory oil light to come on during cornering, my oil pressure was dropping to around 22-24 psi on each and every corner, as soon as the G-force reaches .9G. So, a dry sump system is enroute from the US right now and the car will not be back on the track until it is installed and running. Next Timeattack outing is 18 March so I have a few weeks still.

I had also just installed a new oil/water oil cooler from PWR, and working with their engineering people to monitor the efficiency of that cooler which will be released onto the market real soon.

Also found out that my fuel pressure, intank Walbro, drops from 65 psi to 52 psi at 7000 rpm. Fuel system is also on the cards now too.

Currently my data logging includes oil temp, oil pressure, water temp, fuel pressure and AFR, still need to connect up the throttle position, steering angle and brake pressure logging.

So that is where I am at the moment, immediate plans include building a nice 427 race engine, with the new dry sump, and am working on wider wheels and tyres to help the car become faster and safer,especially with another 100+ HP and ft/lb.

Garry

[2 cylinders shy]

I love this thread.
Every post is so informative, the pace at which you progress with your project is amazing. Every modification is so well thought out and adds something to the car, no wasted moves.

I find it interesting that you where running a "mid 220s cam" in a 6l race car and still reving to atleast 6750rpm. I have recently chosen a cam for my car and ended up with a 224/228 108lsa.

Are you going to go with wider wheels al round or just at the rear?

That is not good news about the L76 sump, what happend to th plans to use the accusump?

[ghz28]

Thanks for the compliments about the posts, I do try to keep it factual and somewhat to the point...though I do tend to ramble a bit because I can actually type quite quickly....faster than brain sometimes. lol

With the head work etc maximum power is occuring at 6500 rpm, even with the new cam it is at 6625, which we have found is caused by the stock manifold runner length being too long being designed for day to day driving. Hence the 427 will be built with an aftermarket manifold which has been dyno proven to allow maximum power to be realised at 7000 rpm.

The wider wheels will be used all round, but the front tyre size will remain the same and the rears increased to 265s in semi comp and 280 slicks. This is 17 inch too to keep the overall diameter down, basically the plan is to run V8 supercar slicks on the rear and smaller on the front to balance the grip levels.

After talking with an experienced engine builder, he indicated that the Accusump would not be able to maintain correct oil pressure for the length of time it takes to transit turn 2 at QR, or the two loops at Lakeside. All between 5.9 and 7.4 seconds for me and most of the time under acceleration. He thought it would be good for maybe 4-5 seconds. I define the transit time in corners from where my lateral G hits 1G on the way in and drops below 1G at the exit. This is pretty standard amongst sedan racers. So I have a brand new Accusump system for sale if anyone wants one, complete with fully automatic solenoid control system and mounts. Be great for 4 and 6 cylinder engines or V8s not subject to long cornering loads.

Garry

I love this thread.
Every post is so informative, the pace at which you progress with your project is amazing. Every modification is so well thought out and adds something to the car, no wasted moves.

I find it interesting that you where running a "mid 220s cam" in a 6l race car and still reving to atleast 6750rpm. I have recently chosen a cam for my car and ended up with a 224/228 108lsa.

Are you going to go with wider wheels al round or just at the rear?

That is not good news about the L76 sump, what happend to th plans to use the accusump?

[GTS Listy]

Great stuff Garry. If you need a second option on tyres and fitment let me know.
Big plans so looking forward to the results and updates.

[seldo]

Yes - excellent stuff Gary. Great, informative and carefully thought-out posts. Sorry to stuff you around with your invites, but I have had so much on lately, and then today, just to really put the kybosch on things, I slipped and fell (cleaning the bloody shower for my treasure...!) and broke my arm quite badly. So I spent the whole day in hospital and have to return again probably tomorrow, to have it operated on....so that's going to seriously curtail my activity for a couple of months... :(

[ghz28]

Gee Dave sorry to hear about the fall and break, hope you get it all sorted quickly. Sounds like you could be a good Crew Chief for a while. :)

All OK on not making it out with us yet, there is plenty of time. Unfortunately I have to fly to Sydney the evening of the next Timeattack day so will only be going out for a short period in the afternoon session, then heading home to get ready to go to the airport. Otherwise I would have invited you out to that where you could at least cast your eye over the car and crew.

Cheers,

Garry

I slipped and fell (cleaning the bloody shower for my treasure...!) and broke my arm quite badly. So I spent the whole day in hospital and have to return again probably tomorrow, to have it operated on....so that's going to seriously curtail my activity for a couple of months... :(

[seldo]

Gee Dave sorry to hear about the fall and break, hope you get it all sorted quickly. Sounds like you could be a good Crew Chief for a while. :)

All OK on not making it out with us yet, there is plenty of time. Unfortunately I have to fly to Sydney the evening of the next Timeattack day so will only be going out for a short period in the afternoon session, then heading home to get ready to go to the airport. Otherwise I would have invited you out to that where you could at least cast your eye over the car and crew.

Cheers,

GarryThanks Gary. Despite all the inabilities, I'm still keen to come, so keep in touch.
Cheers
Dave

[2 cylinders shy]

Hey Garry, how the motor build going?

[ghz28]

I am overseas at the moment and the 6l is ok for now. But, being in the US I did order some bits. Warhawk block and some bits from Carrillo should beat me home. Oh and all the gaskets etc arein my bags.

I will let the builder spec out the rest of the bits, unfortunately he is booked out with Pro Stock builds up to June now. Hope the 6l holds up......lol

One interesting new thing is a Nascar style multi-stage mesh oil filter with removable magnets in it. It allows easy metal analysis so they tell me.

Oh and Listy will love it. Very "bling" in polished alloy. Lol

[ghz28]

Another update, a lot has changed in the past few weeks.

Build of a new engine has been scrapped for now, will continue to run with the 6L for this season and re-evaluate the situation then. There were delays getting hold of a block and other local issues so for now the block has been cancelled, and the Carillo rods etc sold to a friend of my brother in Perth.

I pulled my front brakes apart last week, they had started leaking past the seals on the right hand side, and found one badly heat degraded seal that was leaking. The calipers were completely disassembled, cleaned and put back together with a genuine Harrop overhaul kit. These brakes will probably be for sale soon, along with some sets of Pagid pads and two piece and one piece rotors.

I have this week ordered a set of Alcon Superspec front brakes, with 5 stud hubs and specially made mounts, hoses and hats. These should be ready for collection late next week, hopefully in time for my next track day on 12 May.

I was thinking about putting a sequential gearbox in mid year, but have also canned that and elected to stick with the safety upgrades, brakes, bigger rear tyres, some roll cage additions, and spend some more money on driver training. Every time an experienced driver gets into the car they lap seconds quicker than I do so that points to me being the weakest link and probably where the best return per dollar spent will come from once the brakes and tyres are done.

Also concentrating on getting the car configured to race in the Queensland 500 if it is run again this year or just maybe an iRace round in Brisbane later in the year. Window net, tailshaft loop, isolator switch,bonnet latches etc.

gh

[JJR355]

Nice car you have Garry.
Have you got any photos of it in action on the track?

[ghz28]

Yeah hundreds, I will dig through and find a few good ones.

Garry

[ghz28]

Just realised I have been slack and not dug up those photos. Will try to do it in the next few days.

But right now I have an update and a request for help, very specialised help with brake pads.

After cooking a seal in one of my Harrop front calipers I decided to bite the bullet and get a set of Alcons as per the current V8s setup. Custom hats and dog bones were made up by PWR to move the calipers in from the normal Holden mounting point to allow them to clear the 17" wheels I have. Basically it is the wheel and brake setup from a NZ V8 series car, moved inboard a bit.

The question I have is with regard to pads, I have the PFC01 compound pads in at the moment, but had a training day at QR with Glenn Seton last week and at that stage he noted that the braking power with the setup and booster is a bit too sensitive, but disconnecting the booster made it almost undriveable. The proper solution is a pedal box, but in the short term I am looking for a supercar pad, with less coefficient of friction than the PFC01, perhaps the Project Mu pads.

Choppo, or anyone else, have you had experience with the different pads in the Alcon's.

The person I need to talk to at PWR is not available this week.

Had a track day today at QR and all went very well, brakes are awesome, but a delft touch is needed on the brake pedal, would be impossible without the ABS system.

Another thought was to get a smaller booster, but I don't know if that would actually reduce the actual assistance applied.

Any help much appreciated, have another track day on Saturday.

gh

[seldo]

Garry - sounds like you just need a deader pad compound with a lot less bite.
Unfortunately I think you'll still need the benefit of a booster but just need to take the grab out of it so you don't lock brakes. This is important as it also makes braking a bit easier in that you don't have to tread a fine line for no-lock-up.

I'm afraid I'm out-of-touch and can't recommend any current pad compounds.

Another way of reducing the bite is, I'm told, to have the rotors cryogenically treated. I understand this reduces bite as well as extending disc life, but I've had no personal experience of the process.

There's a couple of blokes on here with experience of this - Choppo maybe - but I know little about it...

[ghz28]

Thanks Seldo,

yeah I am chasing up the various brake people at the moment. The PFC01 is the lowest mu brake pad used by the V8s at present, but I have found that there is a 97 endurance compound, but might have to get it out of England or Europe. Also chasing up some other brands now, seems the AP and Alcon caliper take the same pad and they are in common use around the world in all sorts of applications.

If I can't find anything at a reasonable cost then I will just have to get used to the lighter than ideal pedal pressure.

gh

[seldo]

Thanks Seldo,

yeah I am chasing up the various brake people at the moment. The PFC01 is the lowest mu brake pad used by the V8s at present, but I have found that there is a 97 endurance compound, but might have to get it out of England or Europe. Also chasing up some other brands now, seems the AP and Alcon caliper take the same pad and they are in common use around the world in all sorts of applications.

If I can't find anything at a reasonable cost then I will just have to get used to the lighter than ideal pedal pressure.

ghAnother relatively simple way is to increase your master-cylinder size a tad. It can simply and cheaply be sleeved and re-sized and reduces the hydraulic leverage for less pressure at the wheel cyl and a deader feel

[choppo]

Just realised I have been slack and not dug up those photos. Will try to do it in the next few days.

But right now I have an update and a request for help, very specialised help with brake pads.

After cooking a seal in one of my Harrop front calipers I decided to bite the bullet and get a set of Alcons as per the current V8s setup. Custom hats and dog bones were made up by PWR to move the calipers in from the normal Holden mounting point to allow them to clear the 17" wheels I have. Basically it is the wheel and brake setup from a NZ V8 series car, moved inboard a bit.

The question I have is with regard to pads, I have the PFC01 compound pads in at the moment, but had a training day at QR with Glenn Seton last week and at that stage he noted that the braking power with the setup and booster is a bit too sensitive, but disconnecting the booster made it almost undriveable. The proper solution is a pedal box, but in the short term I am looking for a supercar pad, with less coefficient of friction than the PFC01, perhaps the Project Mu pads.

Choppo, or anyone else, have you had experience with the different pads in the Alcon's.

The person I need to talk to at PWR is not available this week.

Had a track day today at QR and all went very well, brakes are awesome, but a delft touch is needed on the brake pedal, would be impossible without the ABS system.

Another thought was to get a smaller booster, but I don't know if that would actually reduce the actual assistance applied.

Any help much appreciated, have another track day on Saturday.

gh
Sorry Gaz, didn't see these posts! Good chat we had though yesterday.
As Seldo says, have a look at the 'progressive' pads (see emails).
DONT play with master-cylinders, removing ABS, pedal boxes etc. They are a Late Model advantage you shouldn't throw away - unless you are Seton :)

[ghz28]

Yeah thanks Steve, I am chasing the 97 compound from England at the moment. Will see how that goes. For now just need to get used to the light pedal and enormous braking power these things have.

gh

[ghz28]

Sorry for the delay in digging up photos, I lost them on my Mac, just worked out today how to retrieve them.

Garry

Damn, forgot how to imbed them.....

[GTS Listy]

Nice photos of the old and the new. Great helmet too.

I like the color matching of the supercar wing too. Should of got mine done like that. Looks great.

[ghz28]

How come 10 and 11 inch slicks look so small on our cars these days?

A few years ago, a 275 (which is 11" for you youngsters) was a huge tyre and the realm of super cars and big yanks cars like my Camaro. Now I put that size slick on my VT and it just doesn't seem significant at all.

Will put up some photos of 10 and 10.5 inch slicks on the car when I resize them down from their 12 meg native size.

gh

[JJR355]

What sort of mods have you done to get them under it? I'm assuming you're running 275's on it?

[GTS Listy]

How come 10 and 11 inch slicks look so small on our cars these days?

A few years ago, a 275 (which is 11" for you youngsters) was a huge tyre and the realm of super cars and big yanks cars like my Camaro. Now I put that size slick on my VT and it just doesn't seem significant at all.

Will put up some photos of 10 and 10.5 inch slicks on the car when I resize them down from their 12 meg native size.

gh

Dead right there Garry. They look huge on off the car and not so much on. I found the same. I never got photos as it looked stupid but I put the Porsche cup rear on (275 wide and 65 high) and they seemed ok and room under there width wise. Biggest problem was the height of the tyre as I had to wind the suspension up pretty high just to fit them. Would not work. I have a photo of the two tyres side by side somewhere in the GTS thread.

I know the right offset and where to get cheap wheels for some 18x9.5s (+36 offset) to fit under the guards sweet now so will get some 18s in that size soon and run full porshe cup slicks front and fat version on the back.

Next year for that though.

I will be watching carefully with the photos what you did especially with the height issue unless you got a different slick of course
Nice work either way
I a running 285 on the GTS now so near on 12 inch wheel and really minor mods needed with the right offset

[ghz28]

What sort of mods have you done to get them under it? I'm assuming you're running 275's on it?

At this stage, widest tyres that have worked without rubbing are 275/655 x 17. I tried one of those mounted to a nine inch rim the other day. But with the new softer rear springs, which sit 20mm higher than the old ones, I do have more vertical clearance which helps also. I had issues with the Porsche Cup rear tyres, 270/680x18s due to low rear springs and such a large diameter tyre. Pumping the rear guards will fix that though with the right ride height, one day.

My plan is to run 11 inch slicks, on 9.5 inch rims eventually, for now I am using 10.5 inch slicks on 9 inch rims. I have seen too many breakages and cracking of cheap Tiawanese rims for me to go that way, I stick with factory or properly manufactured racing rims. We can get them made here, but ROH need an order for 20 at a time as a minimum, which I have just done for some 17x9 RT rims from them. The V8s currently run a 280/680x17 but changing to a lower profile 18 next season perhaps........so the rumour goes.

So far, all I have done is roll the guards front and rear, hammer the kink where the door starts on the rear, and pumped the front guards maybe 10mm maximum. Running a lot of camber on the front helps a lot with that, keeps the top of the wheel away from the guards.

gh

[JJR355]

I can get a hold of some centrelock hubs and almost unlimited V8 Supercar wheels. I feel that there would be too much mucking around and work involved in putting these into putting them onto the road car set up.(?) Otherwise I'll speak with some of the V8 Giants runners about tracking down some 5 stud wheels...

I won't have a front guard clearance issue as TC member Aeron generously supplied me with some Supercar front guards at little cost.

[ghz28]

Yeah hard enough to put them on the front, and all but impossible for the rear, seeing as they use a live axle with a 9" centre. There are some 5 stud versions of the SC wheels around, but the offset is difficult to handle on factory type suspensions, or so I have been told, which is why they are for sale.

The front guard clearance issue really only comes into play once you go beyond 270mm tyres. Compared to "our" cars the V8s handle pretty well, but compared to vehicles in other racing classes they are often referred to as "under tyred".

To keep things relatively easy when starting with a Holden sedan road car, it seems that we should keep to 275mm as a max tyre width, and diameter between 625 and 655 mm. Utes and Monaro bodies are more flexible in this regard.

gh



I can get a hold of some centrelock hubs and almost unlimited V8 Supercar wheels. I feel that there would be too much mucking around and work involved in putting these into putting them onto the road car set up.(?) Otherwise I'll speak with some of the V8 Giants runners about tracking down some 5 stud wheels...

I won't have a front guard clearance issue as TC member Aeron generously supplied me with some Supercar front guards at little cost.

[ghz28]

I have someone checking the actual backspacing on the current SC wheels, but they are 17x11 and the person I spoke with said he thought the backspace would be in the 7 to 8 inches range, ie, there is only 4 inches or less from the mounting flange to the outside of the wheel. That leave 7 to 8 inches of wheel and tyre to accommodate inside that plane, without fouling on things like the strut, bodywork etc, which is hard on a car without big tubs done.

ps Rumour has it they are moving to an 18 inch wheel next season, so there will be truck loads of their old 17s getting around.....

[JJR355]

The commodores ran struts pre project blueprint. As far as I am aware there are strut specific wheels. As far as I know the strut position wasn't altered, the front wheel well was tubbed but I could be wrong

[ghz28]

Ah OK well you know more about the older ones than I do, was not aware of that.

gh

[JJR355]

I'm not sure what they did to get around it. The early Group A Commodores (VL/P) had a deeper offset but looking at a couple of Perkins VT's from 1999, they appear to run a similar offset to now. I'll post a pic and see if you can see a difference to the wheels you have seen.

[JJR355]

Just a thought, (bear in mind I'm an amateur for suspension stuff), I measured up from the mounting face of my hub to the edge of the factory strut tube in my shell and going by a cross section I was given of V8SC wheels, it only mises by .8 of an inch. Given an upgrade to a coilover strut the spring seat won't be such an issue. Would a bolt on wheel spacer (good quality obviously) solve that problem, or would it open up a whole other pandoras box altogether?

[ghz28]

A spacer, and they are readily available up to about 25mm, can help solve that problem, but you have to consider the additional load that places on the stock wheel bearing. I run spacers, and stock bearings, but I budget to replace them every two seasons, or if they develop any noise or roughness. So far so good. You still face the challenge of fitting centre hubs to the IRS, but maybe someone has made a kit for that, perhaps the GT Production people from a few years ago, Bosnjak Bros I think ran a GTS in GTP. Or the GRM Monaro that Brocky ran, did that have centre lock hubs?

gh

[JJR355]

Yes the GRM Monaro ran centrelock hubs, and also had a complete Harrop IRS setup. I'm thinking of 5 Stud V8SC rims, not the centrelock ones predominantly run on Perkins built Commodores. Apparently these are Commodore stud pattern and spigot diameter...
I think that going by my measurements, the rims will stick out past my V8SC guards if I ran spacers... If you PM me your rmail I'll send you the cross section I have. It's pretty good.

[ghz28]

I think that going by my measurements, the rims will stick out past my V8SC guards if I ran spacers... If you PM me your rmail I'll send you the cross section I have. It's pretty good.

Yes that is the difficulty when running 11" rims, they are so wide to begin with. Talking about the space to the strut, aftermarket coilover strut legs are a slightly larger diameter than the factory strut leg, thicker metal to begin with plus the fact that the shock is mounted inverted into the leg as well. However, having them made allows the option to offset the hub mounting points outboard a little to help with clearances.

At this stage, without tubbing either the front or rear I think I am stuck with rims in the 9-10" size range, which I am happy with for now. I had ROH make up a batch of 17x9 RT racing rims, as per the NZ V8s and they work out around the $200 each mark so quite affordable and are a genuine heavy duty but relatively light weight rim.

Garry