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View Full Version : eBay fraud delaying my entry into IPRA...


bernieL0max
27-04-2010, 01:36 PM
Hi guys,

I've been looking forward to getting into IPRA to go racing for years... encouraged to make the plunge recently as a way of making some positive change in my life I started looking for a good value car car to get in...

I found an RX7 on eBay, previously raced by the daughter of Allan Kendall in NSW, the listing looked great, I called the current owner, Mr Rob XXXXX (NO ALLAN) and asked;
* has he raced he car much since he has had it; the seller responded that it had not been raced at all since he has owned it
* has the car had any work done to it; the seller responded that no work had been done to it
* was it ready to go racing; the seller responded that it was, his words were almost presicely "yeh mate, good to go"

the original listing can be viewed here;
http://www.profix.com.au/rx7/listing.pdf

I bid and won the car for $5000

Within hours of the auction finishing I paid the seller $1000, contacted him to make him aware that I needed to pull the remaining funds from a term deposit. I am self-employed, over the next couple of days I received payment for invoices so I made 3 more payments of $1000 each to keep the seller super-happy.

When the last of my funds came through I contact the seller, and in passing asked if he had found the logbook... it is at this point that things turned;

the seller tried to extort another $1000 from me for the logbook, a document owned by CAMS which belongs with the vehicle.
The seller then demanded I make final payment or he would keep my deposit & relist the car!

See our entire SMS history for a word-for-word account;
http://www.profixXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX.pdf

Note: the first enquiries regarding a logbook were prior to the auction ending.

So I borrowed a utility, hired a trailer, and set off on a 980km drive to pickup my car in person. In all I travelled 2020km and incurred 2-days trailer rental and the cost of one nights accomodation as a direct result.

I was receiving dodgey eBay messaged and SMSs from the seller on my way up to NSW... i was getting very nervous; he stated on a number of occasions that he would not be available, that he would push the car out onto the street so I could pick it up. The address he gave was XXXX Hassell Street,XXXXXX NSW - his last claim said he was pushing it out regardless of receiving the final payment!!! alarm bells were going off and my GPS said I was many hours away and would not arrive until something like 10pm.

an eBay case was opened, the transcript can be read here;
http://www.profix.com.au/rx7/eBayCase.pdf

Note that I closed this case to transfer it to the eBay Trust Center... I have not heard from them yet


While still travelling to NSW I made calls to Police (no help), Private Investigators (none available), Security companies... found one that would send a guard to watch the premises until 10pm for several hundred dollars... broke, and feeling like I was already in the middle of a planned fraud setup I did not want to throw more money away.

I googled the address he had provided and found a listing for a motorsport company at an adjascent address, I contact this number. The person I spoke with apologies that they had in-fact moved from Hassall Street, but wanted to know more, and offered their sympathy & much to my surprise and appreciation offered to look into the situation for me. Props to XZXXX from Incar Motor Sport... though they are not actually a motorsport company as such they were terrific.

XZXXX called me back to let me know he had discovered them dismantling my car! the engine and box were out... he said he had words with them. He called a little while later to tell me that is was worse than he's first seen, that much of the car had already been stripped; but that he had encouraged them to put it back together. I thanked Mario for his help but he understood when I said that as this point I would be seeking my money back.


When I arrived in NSW I spoke briefly with XZXXX to thank him, then went straight to the Fairfield Police Station... I spent some time with a constable who took sympathy in my situation, he called the seller and advised him that he would need to repay my money, then put me on the phone. The seller was rude, abrupt and irrational, he refused to accept that he would need to refund my money and told me that the car would be ready to go at 9am the next day.


The next day I arranged to meet police at the address that the seller had supplied. I arrived before the police so i parked the car close by, purchased a drink from a corner shop next-door and sat under a tree watching the premises for any sign of my car. After several hours (no police), a person came out and spoke to me from No. 7 - he was adament that his business know nothing about, and had nothing to do with my vehicle. He knew the car I was describing and suggested that it was in-fact 2-sheds up in No. 5 ! I video taped this conversation with my iPhone

My phone was getting flat as I had been using it to post on facebook & ausrotary.com, so I sat back in my car to put the phone on the charger. A short time later the police knocked on my car window.

The police were not there for me, they were there to quiz me on threats that the seller alleged he had received!!!!


After convincing them that I was not involved in any threats the constables came with me to speak with the seller. Police Constables Robinson and Raft from Fairfield Police Station were present and witnessed the sellers admissions that; the photographs used to advertise the vehicle were very old, not a current representation of the vehicle; and that the engine and gearbox were removed from the vehicle.

Some discussion took place before the seller insisted that I could take the vehicle for the $4000 already paid and no more money needed to change hands; I indicated that I would consider this offer, at which point I asked for a closer visual inspection. On entering the workshop I asked that the car be lifted on a hoist, I was told it could not because it was too rusty! A quick look over the exterior of the vehicle revealed considerable rust that was not evident in the images used to represent the vehicle on eBay.

I once again made it very clear that the contract of the sale had been breached and that I was seeking a full refund of the $4000 already paid in good faith; the seller refused a number of times. I made the seller aware that if I was forced to take civil action I would also be seeking for him to reimburse my expenses including fuel, trailer rental, accommodation and legal costs, and that it would likely cost him significantly more, Mr XXXXXXX then told me to “f&*^$% off”. At this the police suggested there was no more to come from any discussion and we left.


There is strong evidence of premeditated criminal fraud associated with this case;
• The seller twice indicated in writing that the car was located at XXXXX St; that he would not be able to meet me; and that the car would be pushed out into the street and left unattended so that I could pick it up.
o The vehicle was actually located at XYZ Street, which is occupied a completely different business with [according to the business owner], no relation to the business at No. 7

• The seller unsuccessfully attempted to extort an additional $1000 from me to supply a logbook; i.e. a document owned by the Confederation of Australian Motor Sport (CAMS);
o the seller has admitted that he was never in possession of this document
o this document cannot be brought/sold independent of the vehicle


I am posting this for several reasons;
* In case *anyone* on this forum can help me
* To warn the community about this seller;
DETAILS REMOVED
* and as a cautionary tale...
* USE PAYPAL! I did not... my funds are now tied up in an exhaustive civil legal battle.
* VIEW A VEHICLE BEFORE BIDDING!... do not trust anything any seller tells you, regardless of how good their eBay score looks!




I can be contacted on 0413 66 33 19 or matts.tc@profix.com.au if anyone is able to offer assistance or advice.

Thanks

Matt Harding

NickS
28-04-2010, 08:30 AM
Wow ... that's quite a story. Sorry to hear it though, hope you can work it out.

:cheers:

hsvredsled
28-04-2010, 08:42 AM
Wow...I feel for you.

My only advice is retrospective. Any purchases via evilbay over $1000 do a COD after viewing the product.

I hope it all works out for you.

wag
28-04-2010, 03:35 PM
Holey moley what a disaster !!! I feel for you.

I have always been nervous buying anything like a car on evilbay because of all the sharks out there.

I hope you take this Pr1ck to the cleaners.

DaveHAT
28-04-2010, 04:00 PM
* and as a cautionary tale...
* USE PAYPAL! I did not... my funds are now tied up in an exhaustive civil legal battle.
* VIEW A VEHICLE BEFORE BIDDING!... do not trust anything any seller tells you, regardless of how good their eBay score looks!


Damn Matt ... & I thought I got bitten badly when I was arsed around by the seller of my little shitbox.

I got off easily by comparison at least I ended up with the car ... (albeit a car that was nothing like the seller described)

Your advice is the most sane information currently available on the internet. The very best of luck with it all ... I suspect that the best you'll ever hope to achieve is to save other poor unfortunates from a similar fate.

I hope that's not the case & you take him for all he's worth.

Good luck :cheers:

BOMI
28-04-2010, 05:59 PM
Wow man :eek:

Hell of a first post there mate! :yep:

I feel for you as I nearly bought a car from NZ the other day and Im glad that I had someoen look at it for me as he saved me literaly over $50k in rust repairs.

Good luck with it all mate.


Troy :)


P.S. OH!!! Welcome to Trackchat :cheers:

Munroman
28-04-2010, 07:24 PM
www.rippedoffbyrob.com

Seems it's a big hit on forums everywhere

I found this link on another forum

35R
28-04-2010, 07:43 PM
that's one hell of a story Matt, and a load of bad luck. What does it mean for ebay to state that the case is closed??

Btw, have to ask, in amongst all the arrangements; car carrier, travelling interstate, emails and all those text messages.... did you ever actually call the guy? I can't help thinking the penny would have dropped sooner if you had a decent phone converstation. Perhaps i missed it.

choppo
29-04-2010, 06:33 AM
www.rippedoffbyrob.com

Seems it's a big hit on forums everywhere

I found this link on another forum

WOW - this will be interesting. Shit all round is the only result i can envisage :(

god084
29-04-2010, 07:22 AM
1. Mate, good on you for taking a stand and fighting back on this matter. The amount of people who would just let this go because its too difficult is surreal! 2. I'm sure this bloke is starting to realise (unless he is a complete fkn moron which sounds a little more likely) that ripping you off 4g will be nothing compared to the amount he will lose through his business due to the complete tarring he and his 'so called' profession is copping right now.
3. Stick at it and let him have it. How pathetic does some one have to be to take another mans hard earned and think he has the right to not supply him with the goods promised. Unfortunately this happens when the scum of society feel they deserve everything without being willing to work for it like yourself.

BLK 1T
29-04-2010, 09:48 AM
Can anyone verify Matt Hardings credentials?
Sorry IMHO for a bloke to turn up here out of the blue with long story like this I cant help feeling there is more to the story than we are told.

Maybe I am too old and cynical but I treat evilbay like the stockmarket - you only spend money that you can afford to lose.

Phil

35R
29-04-2010, 12:38 PM
Can anyone verify Matt Hardings credentials?
Sorry IMHO for a bloke to turn up here out of the blue with long story like this I cant help feeling there is more to the story than we are told.

Maybe I am too old and cynical but I treat evilbay like the stockmarket - you only spend money that you can afford to lose.

Phil

Kind of agree. You get the feeling this has been plastered all over the net, copy and paste. See how it pans out, we'll delete it later.

BLK 1T
29-04-2010, 02:05 PM
Yep - showed up on oldholden.com this afternoon.
Suppose dragster.com will be next.
Phil

Kyle
29-04-2010, 02:06 PM
He has ~180 post history on ausrotary..

Here's the thread: http://www.ausrotary.com/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=188938

GTS Listy
29-04-2010, 02:52 PM
Far out certainly making a point of all this. So much tracking and copy of information from the start makes you wonder why do all this and not pick up a phone to call the bloke or get a mate to drop over there for a look before buying. If he is on so many forums generally someine can help out.

Strange but either way seems to be enjoying the attendion going on about how many hits the web site is getting. I guess we will see what happens but as soon as it goes legal you never hear the end result anyway.

choppo
29-04-2010, 04:21 PM
Damn, nothing new on the blog site.... today was the day the Legal Fees we going to start to add up :eek:

Muncha
29-04-2010, 06:31 PM
Far out certainly making a point of all this. So much tracking and copy of information from the start makes you wonder why do all this and not pick up a phone to call the bloke or get a mate to drop over there for a look before buying. If he is on so many forums generally someine can help out.



I did hear about a bloke that was buying a car from the states, he didn't make it known to other forum members until after money had been transferred. Once he told others what he had bought he was informed it wasn't quite what he had been told it was, apparently a different company did the chassis work to what he had been told.

Hopefully the original poster gets it all sorted and figured out.

veewhytu
29-04-2010, 07:28 PM
Dunno how legit this or not but this is a timely reminder when purchasing anything over the net.

Maybe I'm cynical but ill be farked if I'm putting thousands of dollars into anyones bank account without seeing the goods 1st hand

Common sense...its not that common any more :tumbleweed:

bernieL0max
30-04-2010, 12:59 AM
Thanks for all the feedback guys

I know I put far too much faith in the honesty of a stranger... thats on me. I hope is serves as a lesson to others... oh, and i hope to get my money back :)

Matt

bernieL0max
01-05-2010, 12:18 PM
fyi rippedoffbyrob.com (http://rippedoffbyrob.com)now has a guestbook :)

BOMI
01-05-2010, 07:35 PM
Matt I just read the SMS log, this is purely my opinion, but you over reacted when ol mate asked for $1k for the log book. Yep its dodgy, yes it wrong for him to hope you dont have any clue about them and youll pay $1k for them but to staright out say extorsion or black mail or whatever you said has provoked this guy.

Yes he is dodgy, yes what he has done is bad but bad phone service or not IMHO you should have called him.

Texts can easily get miscondtrude and a simple phone call may have saved you from this shit experience.

Also I find the above website that you have created a little "silly". I dont know what you hope to achive from it. Again just my opinion mate.

I do hope that you get all of you hard earned back and that if this guy has comitted a crime then he be held accountable for them.

I feel for you as I nearly bought a car in NZ last week, a HT Monaro. Im lucky that I had a good phone Rappore with the seller over the phone and was in contact with a resto expert from Aus that now lives in NZ.

I bid and won the car and then backed out due to it being a rust bucket and him not discribing it in more honest detail.

Again, good luck.

Troy :)

bernieL0max
02-05-2010, 09:50 PM
Thanks Troy, your comments are noted, and I am going to try and move the focus of the site away from my personal experience to be somewhere you can go to get advice before entering into either side of an eBay auto sale... we'll see how that pans out in the coming days, weeks & longer.

keep en eye on it. :)

bernieL0max
04-05-2010, 10:52 PM
In reponse to some feeback on the forum;


The seller and I only had 2 telephone conversations, both prior to bidding.
I only noticed the car on eBay shortly before it ended, shortly after deciding that it was time to bite the bullet and go do the racing I've always dreamed of doing...

It felt like one of those "meant to be" coincidences, so when the seller assured me the car was all good - ready to race, I committed to it.

I like 'written' communications; a record of what was said, something to remind me of where in the process we're at, and (ignoring emotion/inference) a way of ensuring no breakdown in communication.


I personally dont think I over-reacted to the sellers attempt to tack another $1000 onto the sale for a document that is owned by CAMS, and belongs with the vehicle. this is $1000 bucks we're talking about ~$100 and I might have said yes just for the extra effort.

But if it is the case that I over-reacted, then I'm thankful I did; in the long run it allowed me to discover the bigger picture; the car stripped of it's engine & box, the rusted-out shell, and the setup with the false address, and plans to push it out onto the street already stripped!


Yes, I could have taken many precautions to prevent myself ending up in this situation; but that doesnt make me guilty of any crime, or deserved of being ripped off. I knew I'd cop a bit of this when posting my honest account of the way the events unfolded, but it wouldnt be an honest account if I told it any other way.



At this point I want to take some of my hard learned lessons, the momentum of the site, and make it into somewhere that people can go for advice *before* buying and selling. It will take time to source, collect, create and collate all of the information; but ultimately I think it will be worth it.


Thanks for the support :)

Matt
RippedOffByRob.com