Improved Production (IP) - why aren't you racing in it?

[newguy]

Firstly, this thread has been started off my own back and is for my own curiosity and has nothing to do with IPRA it's self.

Basically some of the Improved production Community is discussing ways that will make the class more appealing to:

a) people that already compete in other categories
b) people that compete on other disciplines (ie track days,supersprints, tarmac rally .....etc)
c) people that are completely new to the sport and are looking for a place to start.

Things I would like to know are:



Do you compete at the moment, and in what category/Discipline?

What car do you run or want to run?

Have you considered IP as a category you would like to run in?

If so are you going to?

Or what was it that turned you away?



For example was it:

Cost?

Rules? ( if so which ones in particular)

Tyres?

Restrictors on turbo cars?

The existing competitors?

The way classes are stuctured EM v LM ?

Maybe you're Just not interested in taking the next step?


Basically anything..... there is no right or wrong answer.

If there is something you want to contribute, but do not want to do it publicly you can PM me and I can post it for you or not at all, totally your call

[ShylanMotorsport]

My biggest problem is cams, as u know we run irace and we do cause its relaxed and fun!!!!
Everyone in ipra is running for sheep stations, we run ona small budget and i dont want to bend my car!!!!
I dont like all the cams bullshit!!! And to get a cams circuit license is bullshit.... Half the blokes racing just shouldnt be! And thats when crashes happen, but they have the money to fix it, maybe if i was earning triple figures i would b at the front, im not sayin im the best driver, im not even a average driver but alot of ppl get a shock when they see how quick our $5000 gemini is, imagine if we spent 100k on it like the front runners!

[Benson]

Dont like the restrictions and rules in certain class. You can go nuts on engine and runing gear, but your suspension components and aero aids are limited to stock. Doesnt make sense to me. So the guys with more money to spend on their engine and running gear will have a clear advantage over the smaller budgeted teams

Time Attack is where its at. Lap times will do all the talking

[82911]

^ OK..... so IPRA let you "go nuts" with suspension and aero as well as engine and drivetrain.....................
Now you have a SPORTS SEDAN..... and that class already exists! so why should IP morph into sports sedans?
It is the RULES and stability of them that maintains the prestige of winning a championship in a class.....
No rules, is why IRACE is considered by all racers to be 2nd tier to CAMS events, even though i agree with their basic ideology of "cheap and uncomplicated".

[sonic]

^^^ My car has a 100% STOCK engine and turbo. Yet i would still have to run a restrictor and detune my engine to run IP. So, why can't LMT cars with stock engines/turbos avoid running a restrictor in IP? After all i'll be against heavily modified cars and may car is nowhere near a sports sedan spec? That is why IP is geared towards older cars and why they don't have many LMT cars running. I may as well run in production cars instead (Ie: Policinia production cars for example) - at least i won't have to run a restrictor - that is where LMT cars end up rather than IP as production cars also doesn't have silly rules like restricting the cage running to the rear towers. IP is a conundrum for LMT cars.

[82911]

^ this is true.
And I believe is the biggest single issue facing IP racing.
Same thoughts here, I want to race an EVO in O2l but why should i when it is simply not a viable option because of restrictors.

[35R]

i just do supersprints; would like to do "proper" racing one day, but at this stage i can't justify the space, time effort, expense and hassle with having a dedicated race car, trailer, tow car and perhaps a daily on top of that. one day.....

[JJR355]

I'm building a VT/X Commodore with a 355 stroker for circuit racing at the moment and originally I was aiming for IP.
Having looked further into it, I could spend megabucks (40/50K +) and still get spanked by a two door, almost 30 year old, flared guard, rotary...
We all want to win, and I accept that I probably won't win too much, but I at least want to be competitive. But I can't see it happening because late model cars are regulated out of competitiveness. Even an early Commodore/Torana would battle to stick with an RX7 due to being under-tyred... (8 inch early V 9 inch for LM). And don't forget the roll cage advantage of an RX7...
I''l keep builiding my car witin IPRA's current regs, but I'll stick to supersprints and give it a run in sports sedans. At least I can run my V8 Supercar aero kit that way.

[newguy]

I'm building a VT/X Commodore with a 355 stroker for circuit racing at the moment and originally I was aiming for IP.
Having looked further into it, I could spend megabucks (40/50K +) and still get spanked by a two door, almost 30 year old, flared guard, rotary...
We all want to win, and I accept that I probably won't win too much, but I at least want to be competitive. But I can't see it happening because late model cars are regulated out of competitiveness. Even an early Commodore/Torana would battle to stick with an RX7 due to being under-tyred... (8 inch early V 9 inch for LM). And don't forget the roll cage advantage of an RX7...
I''l keep builiding my car witin IPRA's current regs, but I'll stick to supersprints and give it a run in sports sedans. At least I can run my V8 Supercar aero kit that way.

JJR.... Where are you from?

[JJR355]

In Victoria.

[Benson]

^ OK..... so IPRA let you "go nuts" with suspension and aero as well as engine and drivetrain.....................
Now you have a SPORTS SEDAN..... and that class already exists! so why should IP morph into sports sedans?


Cant run spherical bearing, Cant run aftermarket adjustable camber arms, cant have front splitter/blade, no aftermarket Wings, car must be a certain height, must run rear interior trim, door trims etc etc etc

Not sure about going nuts bits in regards to Aero and suspension hey.

The engine capacity rule and weight penalty i'm also not a fan off as well. Ill get a weight penalty if i run a B20 block in a Type R. But if i bore out the B18c (original block) sleeve it, stroke it etc to make it a 2.0l then i won't get penalised. For the sake of spending an extra 3-5k on the engine to not get a weight penalty is pretty lame.

Can't believe there is a weight penalty for engine conversion

I like how the Honda Challenge is done in America. We should somehow incorporate some of there rules and regulation. The IPRA crew is getting too old. Change in rules might bring new faces around the paddock. But in the meantime, i think IRACE is the next best organised event to go door to door racing without all the headaches from IP rules and regulation.

[Barney]

Cant run spherical bearing, Cant run aftermarket adjustable camber arms, cant have front splitter/blade, no aftermarket Wings, car must be a certain height, must run rear interior trim, door trims etc etc etc

Not sure about going nuts bits in regards to Aero and suspension hey.

The engine capacity rule and weight penalty i'm also not a fan off as well. Ill get a weight penalty if i run a B20 block in a Type R. But if i bore out the B18c (original block) sleeve it, stroke it etc to make it a 2.0l then i won't get penalised. For the sake of spending an extra 3-5k on the engine to not get a weight penalty is pretty lame.

Can't believe there is a weight penalty for engine conversion


But its all fair when no one else can do it, everyones in the same boat.

IP is the second biggest category in Aus, so it must be doing something right.

I agree its not perfect and it needs to revise rules of Late Model cars in particular Late Model Turbo.

Its proper racing and like any other proper category its going to get rough sometimes and yes the red mist comes over and we think there is a sheep station for wining. But its great fun to be dicing hard with someone and still have a beer at the end of it. But if you really woried about scratching you car dont race IP, take it to Autosalon

Ash

[evil_weevil]

Do you compete at the moment, and in what category/Discipline?
Supersprints, MRA and now MX5 challenge

What car do you run or want to run?
MX5

Have you considered IP as a category you would like to run in?
No.

If so are you going to?

Or what was it that turned you away?

Cost? Yes
Rules? ( if so which ones in particular) my car isnt eligable AFAIK

Tyres? kind of, comes back to cost

Restrictors on turbo cars? n/a

The existing competitors? Dont really know too many people

The way classes are stuctured EM v LM ? doesnt phase me!

Maybe you're Just not interested in taking the next step? I am however I think its too big of a step for me being a noob. Im happy to take smaller steps first such as MX5 challenge

I think with me, Im on a very tight budget.
The cost is main factor.
entry with MRA and AASA events are much cheaper. The licencing is much cheaper also.

I'd need to get another car to enter anyway!

[Barney]

Cant run spherical bearing, Cant run aftermarket adjustable camber arms, cant have front splitter/blade, no aftermarket Wings, car must be a certain height, must run rear interior trim, door trims etc etc etc

Not sure about going nuts bits in regards to Aero and suspension hey.

The engine capacity rule and weight penalty i'm also not a fan off as well. Ill get a weight penalty if i run a B20 block in a Type R. But if i bore out the B18c (original block) sleeve it, stroke it etc to make it a 2.0l then i won't get penalised. For the sake of spending an extra 3-5k on the engine to not get a weight penalty is pretty lame.

Can't believe there is a weight penalty for engine conversion

I like how the Honda Challenge is done in America. We should somehow incorporate some of there rules and regulation. The IPRA crew is getting too old. Change in rules might bring new faces around the paddock. But in the meantime, i think IRACE is the next best organised event to go door to door racing without all the headaches from IP rules and regulation.

I'm building a VT/X Commodore with a 355 stroker for circuit racing at the moment and originally I was aiming for IP.
Having looked further into it, I could spend megabucks (40/50K +) and still get spanked by a two door, almost 30 year old, flared guard, rotary...
We all want to win, and I accept that I probably won't win too much, but I at least want to be competitive. But I can't see it happening because late model cars are regulated out of competitiveness. Even an early Commodore/Torana would battle to stick with an RX7 due to being under-tyred... (8 inch early V 9 inch for LM). And don't forget the roll cage advantage of an RX7...
I''l keep builiding my car witin IPRA's current regs, but I'll stick to supersprints and give it a run in sports sedans. At least I can run my V8 Supercar aero kit that way.

I do hope you race in IP

Have you seen the size of the Wings you can run as a LM Commodore?

Look at this http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/123538600
http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/123538616
http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/126457696

[Profi]

Do you compete at the moment, and in what category/Discipline?
No not at the moment but will be having a crack at sports sedans very soon

What car do you run or want to run?
Well the mustang for messing around at the moment, hyundai and monaro in the near future.

Have you considered IP as a category you would like to run in?
Yes, almost went ipra before building 2 sports sedans. basically we were after a few more freedoms and aren't interested in running 'old' cars. rx7s aren't appealing but the class as a whole is due to it being so large.

If so are you going to?
Yes, some time down the track, most likely in a LM falcon.

Or what was it that turned you away?
For now the politics and older cars.





For example was it:

Cost?
Cost is good, tyres will be a bitch on those dirty plastic expensive advans

Rules? ( if so which ones in particular)
EM/LM need to be rectified, LM cars need light weight freedoms

Tyres?
fhgsdl;fjseorufkghefiksgfhrufdjkgjvrhgfksgfsd; rubbishshit sdhsdljfaes;fjsdk

Restrictors on turbo cars?
38mm (:

The existing competitors?
can not comment apart from this one basted they call choppo, heard the little kids are fearful of him

The way classes are stuctured EM v LM ?
Yes, as said earlier, needs rectifying

Maybe you're Just not interested in taking the next step?
Nope

Hope that helps champ

[Benson]

But its all fair when no one else can do it, everyones in the same boat.

IP is the second biggest category in Aus, so it must be doing something right.

I agree its not perfect and it needs to revise rules of Late Model cars in particular Late Model Turbo.

Its proper racing and like any other proper category its going to get rough sometimes and yes the red mist comes over and we think there is a sheep station for wining. But its great fun to be dicing hard with someone and still have a beer at the end of it. But if you really woried about scratching you car dont race IP, take it to Autosalon

Ash

Ash,

Like i said, i don't like the rules of IP. Got nothing against door to door racing. I would do IP if there were some changes, but i dont see that anytime soon. For the oldschoolers they have been brought up and lived with these 30 year old rules.

In the meantime, ill stick to Supersprints, time attack and think about IRace

[JJR355]

As far as I know from reading the regs in Victoria, the rear wing must be no more than 200mm high and 200mm deep. Basically put a 200mm high rectangle box that is also 200mm deep and no wider than the width of the car and your rear wing must fit nto that. A genuine V8 Supercar VT/X Commodore rear wing will not fit in that type of regulation.
I can't see the point of using something you can buy from Supercheap or Autobarn on a serious race car. You know the one, the type that Habib has on his DR30 Skyline in the Maccas carpark on a Thursday night.
Anyway, you would hear your car for the laughs up and down pitlane if you had one of them on an IPRA car...
The only effective on I have seen is on Scott Bucton's VX Commodore in NSW.

[JJR355]

*Wouldn't hear your car for the laughs.

[.charged.]

Liam I find what you say pretty funny regarding older cars, the Vic U2L SS has a very old field of cars , the majority would be classed as EM.

personally I love IP, you have some great racing and everyone else has the same technical rules. I run a very low budget EM u1600 car and last race meet I was dicing with a A9X Torrie, XA GT Coupe and Commodore Cup car, sadly in SA we dont have many u2l cars but that is changing :).

Some rules need tweaking in overs in reference to turbo cars but that will happen it just takes time.

[Profi]

A genuine V8 Supercar VT/X Commodore rear wing will not fit in that type of regulation.

Those wings aren't that special, speed range of around 200km/h and the curvature is less then ideal.


Liam I find what you say pretty funny regarding older cars, the Vic U2L SS has a very old field of cars , the majority would be classed as EM.

Is my car a Vic under 2 litre?

[JJR355]

Originally Posted by JJR355
A genuine V8 Supercar VT/X Commodore rear wing will not fit in that type of regulation.

Originally Posted by Profi
Those wings aren't that special, speed range of around 200km/h and the curvature is less then ideal.


-Holden Motorsport spent plenty of cash on it, so it can't be too bad...
Certainly better than any generic "Wing" you would get from Supercheap, etc.

[Profi]

-Holden Motorsport spent plenty of cash on it, so it can't be too bad...
Certainly better than any generic "Wing" you would get from Supercheap, etc.

That's true but it's built to fit within certain rules.

If you guys are after wings i can get elements cad cad from high density foam.

[JJR355]

It's good enough for me.
The bracing in the bootlids is enough to convince me it is good enough for what I want to achieve, plus near enough to 300km/h through 'the chase'!
The clincher was it was a bargain!

[Profi]

What did you pay for it? (if you don'y mind putting figures out there) i have a hrt one im about to get rid of.

[.charged.]

Is my car a Vic under 2 litre?

I assumed you live in Vic,+ your have a sports sedan + with a sr20 and thought=
Vic U2L Sports Sedan what series will you be running in ?

[Profi]

Will run with them, as well as running in the state series. Once the v8 is built will run in the kerrick series.

[JJR355]

Profi you have a PM.

[newguy]

The existing competitors?
can not comment apart from this one basted they call choppo, heard the little kids are fearful of him


You bastard... you made coke come out my nose:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::moon:

What did you pay for it? (if you don'y mind putting figures out there) i have a hrt one im about to get rid of.

They're crap... only good to 200kph...... not worth any thing
Seeing as you're are poor battler and in the middle of a build I'll do you a favour and give ya $50 for it.... because I'm such a nice guy:poolaunch:

Have you seen the size of the Wings you can run as a LM Commodore?

Look at this http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/123538600
http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/123538616
http://www.pbase.com/barnsie01/image/126457696

Are those monaro's IP???????
Those wings look massive... how do they get around the 200x200 rule?
Or is it just the angle of the pic?
They look good... do you know who they/he got them off?

[Profi]

You bastard... you made coke come out my nose:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::moon:



They're crap... only good to 200kph...... not worth any thing
Seeing as you're are poor battler and in the middle of a build I'll do you a favour and give ya $50 for it.... because I'm such a nice guy:poolaunch:


Are those monaro's IP???????
Those wings look massive... how do they get around the 200x200 rule?
Or is it just the angle of the pic?
They look good... do you know who they/he got them off?

No, no, no, they have their peak working range at 200km/h, my car with faster cornering speeds has the wing at 130km/h!

$50 tempting.

The body bows out a lot on a monaro, are the rules to the width of the car?

[newguy]

The body bows out a lot on a monaro, are the rules to the width of the car?

I was thinking more of the side profile, not the width ie 200 high and 200 deep

[Barney]

You bastard... you made coke come out my nose:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh::moon:



They're crap... only good to 200kph...... not worth any thing
Seeing as you're are poor battler and in the middle of a build I'll do you a favour and give ya $50 for it.... because I'm such a nice guy:poolaunch:


Are those monaro's IP???????
Those wings look massive... how do they get around the 200x200 rule?
Or is it just the angle of the pic?
They look good... do you know who they/he got them off?

Yes IP Monaros in Perth

[.charged.]

Barney I will be over in Perth for 3 weeks with work from the 16th Aug, I am heading out to the state round on the 22nd, what time does the meet start ?

[Barney]

Barney I will be over in Perth for 3 weeks with work from the 16th Aug, I am heading out to the state round on the 22nd, what time does the meet start ?

Excellent! I hope you enjoy yourself.

Session Start Description Duration
Qualifying 1 0830 Formula Fords 10 mins
Qualifying 2 Formula Tech Dyno Centre AU/VT Saloon Cars 10 mins
Qualifying 3 Street Cars 10 mins
Qualifying 4 Formula Vees 10 mins
Qualifying 5 Improved Production Cars 10 mins
Qualifying 6 Formula Tech Dyno Centre EA/VN Saloon Cars 10 mins
Qualifying 7 Sports Cars, Marque Sports Cars and Sports Sedans 10 mins
Race 1 1015 Formula Fords Race 1 8 laps
Race 2 Formula Tech Dyno Centre AU/VT Saloon Cars Race 1 8 laps
Race 3 36th Annual Torque Trophy for Street Cars Race 1 10 laps
Race 4 Formula Vees Race 1 8 laps
Race 5 5th GT Tander Trophy for Improved Production Cars Race 1 10 laps
Race 6 Formula Tech Dyno Centre EA/VN Saloon Cars Race 1 8 laps
Race 7 Sports Cars, Marque Sports Cars and Sports Sedans Race 1 8 laps
1200 Official’s Lunch Break 35 mins
Race 8 1240 Formula Fords Race 2 8 laps
Race 9 Formula Tech Dyno Centre AU/VT Saloon Cars Race 2 8 laps
Race 10 36th Annual Torque Trophy for Street Cars Race 2 10 laps
Race 11 Formula Vees Race 2 8 laps
Race 12 5th GT Tander Trophy for Improved Production Cars Race 2 10 laps
Race 13 Formula Tech Dyno Centre EA/VN Saloon Cars Race 2 8 laps
Race 14 Sports Cars, Marque Sports Cars and Sports Sedans Race 2 8 laps
Race 15 Formula Fords Race 3 8 laps
Race 16 Formula Tech Dyno Centre AU/VT Saloon Cars Race 3 8 laps
Race 17 36th Annual Torque Trophy for Street Cars Race 3 15 laps
Race 18 Formula Vees Race 3 8 laps
Race 19 5th GT Tander Trophy for Improved Production Cars Race 3 15 laps
Race 20 Formula Tech Dyno Centre EA/VN Saloon Cars Race 3 8 laps
Race 21 Sports Cars, Marque Sports Cars and Sports Sedans Race 3 8 laps
1700 Presentation of awards for 1st, 2nd and 3rd overall at McCrackan House
Last update 14 July 2010