Brake Ducting

[Scotty]

I have always been interested in setting up an easy brake ducting on my car. Especially the fronts.

I investigated it a bit last year but to no avail. I ended up deciding if I wanted it I had to design it. Before I go down that path, has anyone done brake ducting before?

RBS Matt, do you sell ducting kits etc?

I presume there are options depending on if you are happy to cut your bumper or not.

[BOMI]

Scotty last year at Wakey I ran some ducting to my front brakes. I went to Bunnings and purchased some 125mm flexible aluminium ducting.

It was a bitch to fix and scraped under hard braking. I felt that it worked well in getting more air to the brake caliper as the brakes didnt fade at all whilst I had the ducting on the car.

It soon came off after I went into a gravel trap.

Dunc do you remember dodging that last bit that cam off my car as you followed me through turn two or three :lmao:


Good thread Scotty, I would like to know if there are purpose built kits out there.


Troy :thumbs:

[35R]

Dunc do you remember dodging that last bit that cam off my car as you followed me through turn two or three :lmao:

I sure do, i think you have it on video somewhere.

For a DIY thing, i was thinking of using some smaller ag-pipe from bunnings (the kind without the irrigation holes).

I have even seem some brake shields somewhere that include the pipe mounting holes. Come to think of it i think there were on the race brakes website..

[DaveHAT]

I sure do, i think you have it on video somewhere.

For a DIY thing, i was thinking of using some smaller ag-pipe from bunnings (the kind without the irrigation holes).

I have even seem some brake shields somewhere that include the pipe mounting holes. Come to think of it i think there were on the race brakes website..

The Ag pipe sounds like a good idea Dunc and would be theoretically benign to man and machine if it ever came adrift whilst circulating.

Could probably be secured using zip ties fairly easily too. Good idea.

[35R]

Just need to make sure it doesnt melt i suppose

[Aeron]

You can buy the ducting from Revolution Race Gear. Last time I looked they sold it by the M. And it will not melt :)

[Scotty]

Thanks Aeron, I will look into it.

Here are some pics I have previously found on the WWW...

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct01.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct02.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct03.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct04.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct05.jpg

[Scotty]

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct06.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct07.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct08.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct09.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct10.jpg

[Scotty]

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct11.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct12.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct13.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct14.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct15.jpg

[Scotty]

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct16.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct17.jpg

http://trackchat.com.au/media/data/527/brakeduct18.jpg

Some of these are very similar.... I am sure we can come up with something... but it would be better if something already exists...

[35R]

those are great pics, lots of ideas there

[Hethro87]

Hi Scott.

I was in the car with Troy going around wakey that time and when we had the ducting on it made a HUGE difference. When we took it off every single time under brakes the pedal was getting closer to the floor - trust me i was watching hahaha!

Dunc is right simple AG pipe from bunnings warehouse is good enough. Just measure it from where the chassis rail starts (right under your front bumper) is to where the rotor is and cable tie it up to the rail simple as that - ive already figured out how im going to do it on my car.

Plus when your finished cut the ties off and chuck it in the boot and drive home, fully resusable! And not expensive too like some of those set ups looked like!

Hethro

[Scotty]

While I agree there are pretty cheap ways of going about it, it would be nice for it to look and be tidy. Not to mention I believe you need to ensure you are not cooling the outside of the rotor but closer to the hub to ensure effective cooling and not to promote cracking...

I expect that my first step will be to do a Scotty Bunnings Performance special and go from there....

[Brockfan05]

Correct me if I am wrong, but the vanes inside a vented rotor act as an air pump, drawing cool air from the inside centre of the rotor and expelling the hot air out the ends of the vents. So with that on board, you would need to direct air to the centre of the inside of the rotor, or as close as possible to it - which may mean removing the dust shield. Also, try to duct air from the front bar (V8 supercar style) to get the coolest air charge possible. Some aquaintances from Evo Oz did some actual measuring of temps - with and without cooling ducts, and measured between 30 deg and 40 degree cooler rotor temps with the ducting after a few hot laps on an ave temp day (25 deg or so). So well worth the effort IMO. The other thing I researched on this was you need at least 3" diam ducting or you might be wasting your time...got that from an old SM tech article.

[RBS MATT]

As you can see the brake duct is always running into the centre of the disc/hub so it is sucked through the venting in the discs.If you run it direct to the disc face it can cause the rotors to crack .

[Scotty]

So Matt do you have any products like this? even for a BMW or something.

[RBS MATT]

So Matt do you have any products like this? even for a BMW or something.
BMW will be a do it yourself job but the commodores we are looking at a supplier at the moment to make for us.

[Scotty]

BMW will be a do it yourself job

do you have any pics of the BMW type? or are they the same as one of the pics already posted?

[VooDoo]

LOL, ive seen this exact collection of pic's before (cept without the watermarks)

Ive been looking at the same thing but never got far with it

[Scotty]

Stu... a case of dejavu perhaps?:up2sum:

I plan on taking it further this time.

[Sonny@AutoWerks]

Guys ,

I,m not 100% sure on this,but if ur rotor veins are facing the wrong way,this can actually cause the brakes to overheat i believe ? anyone heard this before ? as if this is true then you guys have a problem as the holdens use lefy hand discs all round,which mean one side will be correct and one side wont be ?


regards sonny

[Scotty]

Guys ,

I,m not 100% sure on this,but if ur rotor veins are facing the wrong way,this can actually cause the brakes to overheat i believe ? anyone heard this before ?

I cant remember looking at my stock rotors, If the stocks are like you explain it could explain why one side for some people always crack? maybe?


if this is true then you guys have a problem as the holdens use lefy hand discs all round,which mean one side will be correct and one side wont be ?
regards sonny

thankfully my new ones all directional to draw the air from the inside to outside all round.. so i dont expect to have a problem.

who has some stock rotors fitted to look and see?

[lautray]

If the stocks are like you explain it could explain why one side for some people always crack? maybe?
It doesnt explain mine cracking... rotor vanes correct orientation :headbang: :headbang: .

[DaveHAT]

It doesnt explain mine cracking... rotor vanes correct orientation :headbang: :headbang: .

Maybe standing ones VX Commodore on it's nose using ones right foot might ? :D

[lautray]

Maybe standing ones VX Commodore on it's nose using ones right foot might ? :D
Only use toes :D, smartarse :whip: !

[dattoman]

Big toes

Yes your right Sonny Harrop built them all one sided

[BlooHAT]

I was wondering if there has been any more follow ups on this idea ?

Ive realised how important cool brakes are, would like some more info..

Dan

[dattoman]

Getting the temps under control is very important
Last thing you want to do is overcook it
No matter how good your pads and discs are they won't handle core temps over 700C for too long ( or for some people white hot )
Better to keep things around the 500-550 mark

Now we just have to design something hey

[Scotty]

This is another thing on my to do list... just havent got there yet... (like the CAI)

[235rwkw]

Guys ,

I,m not 100% sure on this,but if ur rotor veins are facing the wrong way,this can actually cause the brakes to overheat i believe ? anyone heard this before ? as if this is true then you guys have a problem as the holdens use lefy hand discs all round,which mean one side will be correct and one side wont be ?


regards sonny


that hsv isn't it they have the slots and vent all one way....

[235rwkw]

those commies with lower round fog lights like the VX would be good to remove and use for vent intakes, keep the pipes up high....

i've done it before on an RX4, ran 90mm heat resistant ribbed plastic ducting

[NickS]

that hsv isn't it they have the slots and vent all one way....

Some do ... some don't.

I can confirm that the HSV AP system Holmart has just sold a million sets of has left side and ride side rotors. The E Series APs also have left and right side rotors. I think the older Harrop sets may have been left only, Harrop only seems to do left and right rotors on the top of the line setups.

[235rwkw]

hey scotty just seeing your A/C post use some of the left over ducting from that :up2sum:

just imagine some 400mm ducting under the car...;)


nah some a/c venting stuff is only 100mm..bathroom size...

[BOMI]

I used the 100mm stuff and it was good but ripped off under heavy braking due to the cars front end dipping under braking.

Troy :)

[dattoman]

Go 3"

The foglight area isn't the best to get your air from
But its better than nothing
We're looking at picking up from the centre of the bumper off to the sides... like a stupercar design

Updates when we get it done

[saj]

Getting the temps under control is very important
Last thing you want to do is overcook it
No matter how good your pads and discs are they won't handle core temps over 700C for too long ( or for some people white hot )
Better to keep things around the 500-550 mark

Now we just have to design something hey

Yeah white hot brakes dont last to long....oops

[vhr32]

I have used brake ducts lots and its a very worthwhile cheap investment!

The long straights here at Symmons Plains are pretty hard on brakes and ive had cars which fade after 2 laps but by fitting ducts they're able to last the 6 laps of our sprints.

[Stelth]

So has anyone put some sort of kit together yet?

I have found plenty of products in the US but it's a bit expensive.

It will probably cost a few hundred to buy and ship over here.

cheers

[dattoman]

Once the discs,pistons,caliper kits arrive from America we can move the car and get it on the hoist
Then we shall have a play

[Stelth]

Once the discs,pistons,caliper kits arrive from America we can move the car and get it on the hoist
Then we shall have a play

Sorry i must have missed something.

What kits are coming from the US ?

[dattoman]

Rubber seal kits to go in the Wilwood caliper with the new pistons to replace the melted ones

Not a ducting kit
We're going to work on that once the car is on the hoist

[Stelth]

Ahh.


Cheers

[Stevie_D]

Any developments Dattoman?

[dattoman]

After waiting 11 weeks for the rotors to arrive from America...... which in the end they didn't.... we have got no further

I believe the new discs we supplied should have arrived today (and are hopefully right) and the car will run this weekend without any cooling
The event is restricted to a couple of laps at a time so should be OK

Then we hope to get the car in the air and have a look at airflow

[BOMI]

Im keen to see what sort of brake ducting ideas there are available for my car.

I did the Bunings flexible stove top ducting thing and it worked well till under hard braking it ripped off....oh and ploughing through Wakeys sand traps also :lmao:


Troy :)

[VooDoo]

Stu... a case of dejavu perhaps?:up2sum:

I plan on taking it further this time.

So when can i order 10 sets of these ducts Scotty??

haha

[Scotty]

So when can i order 10 sets of these ducts Scotty??

haha

Today if you want... lets say a deposit of $100 x10... no probs... I just cant confirm delivery at this time.....

Congrats on the business venture... looking forward to seeing your products in action... I am sure we can find you some NSW test vehicles...

This is still on my start by christmas list... along with finalising my CAI. I might try to get something actioned for the september wakey day though...

[VooDoo]

If you have any designs finaliased for the brakes i might be able to get something machined up for you..

[Scotty]

If you have any designs finaliased for the brakes i might be able to get something machined up for you..
thanks Stu

Clarification though......
When I have any designs finaliased for the brakes i will ask if you would be able to get something machined up for me.

[BOMI]

thanks Stu

Clarification though......
When I have any designs finaliased for the brakes i will ask if you would be able to get something machined up for me.

Are we talking about brake ducts or has this thread evolved?

Troy :)

[RBS MATT]

Brake ducting material at the moment will be available in various sizes and possible with two different materials.The length i have just ordered is 50mm in diameter and 3.3mtrs stretched and will sell for around $240 for the length.We may may sell 1 mtr minimum lengths so we are not left with offcuts.The colour is a burnt orange.The other material will be available soon and info updated as we receive it.

[BOMI]

Brake ducting material at the moment will be available in various sizes and possible with two different materials.The length i have just ordered is 50mm in diameter and 3.3mtrs stretched and will sell for around $240 for the length.We may may sell 1 mtr minimum lengths so we are not left with offcuts.The colour is a burnt orange.The other material will be available soon and info updated as we receive it.


Sounds very expensive, im sure its good quality though. Any pics Matt?


Troy :)

[Aeron]

Well, in the next few weeks im going to make some kind of cooling system for the front brakes on the SS. Im sick of them warping. You cool 'em off for a few laps and they are good, then they get hot and warp again. Its time for brake ducting.

[lautray]

Well, in the next few weeks im going to make some kind of cooling system for the front brakes on the SS. Im sick of them warping. You cool 'em off for a few laps and they are good, then they get hot and warp again. Its time for brake ducting.

Is that with the AP kit Aeron? Which rotors you running? 5000's front & 4000 rear?

[Aeron]

Is that with the AP kit Aeron? Which rotors you running? 5000's front & 4000 rear?

Yep, you're right. AP's with 5000's front & 4000 rear.

[lautray]

I used to use 4000's with my PBR PK1 kit & didn't think they were all that good. Had many issues with them. Since changing to the HSV/AP kit, with the genuine AP rotors, cannot fault the rotors at all. Done three track days now, and as you saw at Eastern Creek not long ago, they work a treat. Thought 5000's were the ants pants? What pad are you running? DS2500 or 3000's?

I guess any ducting is good ducting. How will you run it? Take the foggies out & plumb through the vacated hole?

[Aeron]

I used to use 4000's with my PBR PK1 kit & didn't think they were all that good. Had many issues with them. Since changing to the HSV/AP kit, with the genuine AP rotors, cannot fault the rotors at all. Done three track days now, and as you saw at Eastern Creek not long ago, they work a treat. Thought 5000's were the ants pants? What pad are you running? DS2500 or 3000's?

I have DS3000's on the front and 2500's on the rear.

Are the AP rotors better than the 5000's? If so I may look at getting some.

I guess any ducting is good ducting. How will you run it? Take the foggies out & plumb through the vacated hole?

Yeh, thats the plan at this stage. I just have to find the best way to get the ducting to the brakes without it getting in the way of the tyres etc...

[RBS MATT]

I didn't get the time to take photo's of the ducting but we are looking at some other products to try as well and will keep in touch with it.

Aeron : Are the AP rotors better than the 5000's? If so I may look at getting some.

Yes the AP Racing rotors are better as they are designed for motorsport but they may not be available to suit the dba hats and custom hats may need to be made.Some of these AP HSV rotors are made at DBA for AP Racing.
The DBA5000 series rotors should be fine and work better than the 1 piece for heat transfer and dispersement along with the weight reductions gained.We are selling many 5000 series rotors for that kind of work and a lot of the EVO and STi drivers are finding them very good as well but in the end every car and driver is different.One of my current customers who has high deceleration braking runs the HAWK pads and the 5000 series slotted rotors on his STi and has greatly reduced his lap times at Eastern Ck.

[RBS MATT]

This is a very informative tour but I am not sure if they will still have factory tours now Steve Borg has left DBA but how many people would be interested in a tour after work one night if i could still get one organized ? :bravo:

[lautray]

We are selling many 5000 series rotors for that kind of work and a lot of the EVO and STi drivers are finding them very good as well but in the end every car and driver is different.
They are lucky in that we are arresting >1700kg whereas they'd be <1500kg.

I believe PSI38L mentioned that there is no direct DBA replacement for the HSV/AP kits just yet... genuine AP rotors or nothin'. And they're not the cheapest things around either.

[Aeron]

I don?t consider myself to be hard on the brakes or abuse them at all. It could be that because I have such crap tyres on it, I have to slow down so much for the corners so im doing a lot of braking because of poor corner speed, and under brakes the tyres dont have a lot of grip, so I have to brake early and for a long time. Anyhoo, I?ll rig up some brake ducting and im working on getting some RE55?s. I also have some 18?s for the semi slicks so they?ll give the brakes a bit more room to breath than the 17?s.
I?ll be sure to post some pics of the ducting set up when it?s all done :)

[saj]

I rigged up some ducting for our last track day and it made a huge differance, but im not the easiest bloke on brakes so they need all the help they can get. Ill try and get some photos tomorrow and post them up.

[Aeron]

I rigged up some ducting for our last track day and it made a huge differance, but im not the easiest bloke on brakes so they need all the help they can get. Ill try and get some photos tomorrow and post them up.


That'd be great if you could do that mate! :yep:

[saj]

Ive taken the photos but cant work out how to post them. If i can email them to someone could they put them up for me?

[Aeron]

Ive taken the photos but cant work out how to post them. If i can email them to someone could they put them up for me?


Yeh mate, send them to at Aeron17@yahoo.com and I'll host them.

[saj]

Thanks, ive sent them. I'm not sure if they all went there should be 12. I'll do a write up tonight on what i used, where i got it, cost and every thing.

[Aeron]

Photos from Saj

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0881.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0883.jpghttp://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0884.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0885.jpghttp://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0886.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0887.jpghttp://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0888.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0889.jpghttp://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0890.jpg

http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i276/photosbyaeron/Brake%20Ducting/100_0891.jpg

[BOMI]

Good pics guys, that almost exactly the same as the way I did it at Wakey a while back. I used foil type kitchen venting and it ripped off through the sand traps and rubbed on the ground under braking due to me running it under the bumper at the front not through the grill.

Looks the goods from what I can see :yep: :thumbs:

Troy :)

[saj]

Thanks for posting the pics. The ducting is 3" silicone brake ducting from Revolution Racegear. Its stainless wire renforced, I bought 4 foot for $150 but should have got 5 foot as its a touch to short. The area under the front number plate is a massive high pressure area so the closer you can get the opening of the pipe to the radiater the more air you'll get. Ive got the other end blowing to the centre of the rotor just behind the caliper. I used to get massive brake fade by my second lap and even after a cool down lap had front rotor temps of high 700 degrees. Since ive done the ducting i havent had any fade at all with a firm pedal lap after lap and rotor temps of low 300 degrees after a cool down lap.

[lautray]

Looks very practical. Cheers for the photos. May have to investigate this further. I don't really suffer brake fade, but anything to prolong rotor & pad life, I'm happy to try.

So was that 5 foot length's per side or in total?

[saj]

Sorry,I read the invoice wrong its 6 foot i got but should have got 7 foot. It just over 3 foot per side you need. They sell it buy the foot and the 6 foot was $150.

[RBS MATT]

I don?t consider myself to be hard on the brakes or abuse them at all. It could be that because I have such crap tyres on it, I have to slow down so much for the corners so im doing a lot of braking because of poor corner speed, and under brakes the tyres dont have a lot of grip, so I have to brake early and for a long time. Anyhoo, I?ll rig up some brake ducting and im working on getting some RE55?s. I also have some 18?s for the semi slicks so they?ll give the brakes a bit more room to breath than the 17?s.
I?ll be sure to post some pics of the ducting set up when it?s all done :)

It could very well be that but may i ask is the disc rotor face also crazing (small scattered cracks) at all ? This is common as well when the rotor face is staying continuously hot .The ducting will help to a point.

[Aeron]

It could very well be that but may i ask is the disc rotor face also crazing (small scattered cracks) at all ? This is common as well when the rotor face is staying continuously hot .The ducting will help to a point.


I just had a look and there are no signs of crazing at all.

[RBS MATT]

I just had a look and there are no signs of crazing at all.

Thats good then because that is often the most common form of rotor damage we see when brakes are getting real hot.

[Stelth]

Hey guys ,

I have just noticed this week that i am getting bad steering wheel shake only under initial light braking.

If i apply firm pressure i don't think it shakes at all.

They still feel great under hard high speed braking.

It only does it when the smallest amount of pressure is applied.

And lately i have been driving the car very soft and it started to do this.

I have payed special attention to the brakes from day one , but could they be warped with such little use or something else?

The only thing that was changed last week was the front camber went from -2.5 to - 0.5 for a long drive down the coast.

Sorry for posting on here rather then starting a new thread.

[PSI38L]

What pad compound pad are you using? are the rotors and hats fixed or floating?

[Stelth]

They have DS2500 front on a fixed hat.

Some one has told me to do a few hard stops like from 100 to 20.

He said it may have some build up on the pad or it may be a glazing issue.

What are your thoughts John ?

[PSI38L]

They have DS2500 front on a fixed hat.

Some one has told me to do a few hard stops like from 100 to 20.

He said it may have some build up on the pad or it may be a glazing issue.

What are your thoughts John ?

some timea if you drive around not using the brakes much you can get a small build up. try giving it a few hard stops. if that doesn't fix it give the discs a light rub with emery paper, and rub the pads on concrete.

[Stelth]

some timea if you drive around not using the brakes much you can get a small build up. try giving it a few hard stops. if that doesn't fix it give the discs a light rub with emery paper, and rub the pads on concrete.

Hey thanks for that info, i will do just that.

And hopefully it will fix it.

If the rotors where some how warped, shouldn't i be feeling it on the peddle and/or on the steering wheel under heavy braking and not just light stuff?

[dattoman]

Rotors rarely if ever warp
Thats a misconception
Its usually pad material transfer on the disc face
Hence why machining them.... to take the buildup off... works
So people think its warpage
DS2500's can do this abit when they get hot

[BOMI]

Rotors rarely if ever warp
Thats a misconception
Its usually pad material transfer on the disc face
Hence why machining them.... to take the buildup off... works
So people think its warpage
DS2500's can do this abit when they get hot


Are you serious???


Troy :yep:

[Stelth]

Well. . . I did a few hard stops but it didn't help much.

i also gave the discs a substantial rub with 1000 grid wet and dry.

Again it has done nothing to help the brake shudder.

It seems to be getting worse especially when the brakes are hot.

It started off only on light braking but now feels like it's there under hard braking also.

when i had the wheels off i turned the discs by hand and they had a tight spot.

Are you sure this isn't signs of warped rotors?

I spoke to PWR and they are willing to send me 2 new rotors rather then machine these ones.

That's all good , but i need to find out why this has happened.

It seems silly if i have to go through this every few thousand K's.

[35R]

Are you serious???


Troy :yep:

Apparently true Troy. There's a very good article somehwere on this. Bit of an eye opener. Either way, the discs need machining and feel warped/wobbly, same conditiion/same fix.

[35R]

Well. . . I did a few hard stops but it didn't help much.

i also gave the discs a substantial rub with 1000 grid wet and dry.

Again it has done nothing to help the brake shudder.

It seems to be getting worse especially when the brakes are hot.

It started off only on light braking but now feels like it's there under hard braking also.

when i had the wheels off i turned the discs by hand and they had a tight spot.

Are you sure this isn't signs of warped rotors?

I spoke to PWR and they are willing to send me 2 new rotors rather then machine these ones.

That's all good , but i need to find out why this has happened.

It seems silly if i have to go through this every few thousand K's.

John,

when you take the old rotors off, why not post up a photo of them? some of the experts here can comment.

[Stelth]

John,

when you take the old rotors off, why not post up a photo of them? some of the experts here can comment.

Sure, will do that.

[2 cylinders shy]

http://www.cams.com.au/bulletins/B06-096%202006%20V8%20UTE%20Series%20Sporting%20Regula tions%20-%20Amendment%202.pdf

The above link lists the suppliers for all V8Brute controlled components, including "brake duct kit components ford & holden"

[GTS Listy]

I thought I might add some photos to my brake ducting set up I am making.
Inlet from the fog lights or move it to the side of the radiator if the fog lights are not good enough. I will have a bit a gause in there to stop rocks etc. All this is just test fit. The ducting was $9 per foot. Need about 8 ft each side or 4 if you only run a single duct
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductsandwheels002.jpg

Incoming ducts from behind the fog lights. I will have a plastic thing to make up so I split the flow to the two ducts. It is 51mm high temp duct
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductsmorework003.jpg

The wheel arch. I have tested the wheel clearance on both sides at full lock and where I will run it will be fine and not obstruction from the strut etc. Obvoiusly secure it really well
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductsmorework002.jpg

The duct to the rotor. Photo 2 below will explain better
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductsmorework001.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductsmorework004.jpg

And finally the little metal mounting things I am getting made up to mount to the suspension bolts. Similar to what these are but the calipers have alot more room so it is not a tight fit. I will have the air right into the disk centre.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ductvent.jpg

More work this weekend if the metal mounting things are ready. Any questions please let me know

[dattoman]

I bought 10m of that 3" ducting the other day
Don't even know why cause I don't need it atm..... lol

[lautray]

O/t, how do you go with the drilled rotors Listy i.e. holes cracking?

[GTS Listy]

Dont know yet but I will in two weeks on the next meet. They came with the APs when I brought them a month ago. I have seen a few circuit cars with the combined slotted and drilled and they still run them. The drills are a fair way apart so i hope this will make a difference. I am going to build up speed and rotor temps gradually on each of the outings during the day to see what temps i am running at and go from there. It is a fun day on the 10 Aug.
Just in case there maybe an issue is the reason why I am trying to get the ducting sorted and working well.

[GTS Listy]

Ducting all finished. I only wanted to fit one of the ducts for testing initially. If needed I will get the other installed. Hose clamp to go on there too.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Newwheels014.jpg

Little but messy as I had to modify them a bit to get the struts bolt tight. They are prototypes but got them sorted now.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Newwheels015.jpg
Good wheel clearance and no hitting the tyres.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Newwheels016.jpg
Just fits over where the fog lights go and use the two screws the fog lights are secured with. Gause in there too
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Newwheels021.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Newwheels022.jpg

[lautray]

Nice work Listy.

[GTS Listy]

Just to comment on the testing today with the new ducts. The ducting works great. Actually too good and I could not get enough heat into the brakes due to the long straight cooling the rotors too much so i blocked off some access. Good thing and very successful. Had to modify where the alloy bit near the disk was mounted too as I could not get the camber bolts to stay tight and lost my camber. Sorted now with a new mount but same position.

Rotor temps after the cooldown lap were about 150 degree or less. No idea at full tilt other than pedel feel. Pedel felt great all day.

Cost is $25 for the a/c plastic bits over the spot lights, $24 for 3 foot of the high temp duct and it cost $25 for the allow mounts to be made up. So $74 per side is ok for a very successful ducting system. If people want more details please let me know.

[.charged.]

Good work... Its always good when new things work.... Did it help lap times ?

[.charged.]

The nephews run a a water cooling system in their brake ducts, they have squirters positioned at the front of their airdams where the brake ducts are . They only use at Mallala, the local circuit because we have 3 really big stops there.. 210km/h @ the 250m brake mark, 180km/h, at the 150m mark and 165 km/h at the 120m brake mark. At Mallala there is no real long straights to cool the brakes. They run it off their brakelight switch with a seperate on/off switch.

It may be a worthwhile addition when you start getting quicker especially with such a heavy car.

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l269/toyocharged/watercooledbrakes.jpg

[GTS Listy]

Good work... Its always good when new things work.... Did it help lap times ?

Only a practice day so we only had hand timing. I was running in the mid 1.25 which is a tad quicker than usual. Always hard to tell with hand timing.

[GTS Listy]

I thought I would show you guys the finished product out of the car and a good photo of exactly where they sit compared to the rotor. These can be installed and removed without removing the wheels. Just jack up and turn the wheel to one side. Easy. If you do not have spotlights just use the sides of the radiator. Just as good.
Tested just fine on the weekend. I did not get full race speed temp recordings but I strugled to get good heat into the rotors initially. Once I blocked the fog lights up a little bit with tape they worked great. After 5 full speed laps and one cooldown lap the rotor temps were about 170 degress. With the previous rotors/calipers without ducts if I did the same thing and come into the pits they would still be into the 400 to 500 degress area so these must be effectice even considering I upgraded rotors. Just annoyed I did not have them with the Harrops.
I have decided it is best just to get temp resistent zip ties and tie them to the strut. Saves mucking around with the camber bolts and proberbly safer anyway than having something in the camber colts.

It sits neatly in the groove of the calliper and about 3 cm away from the rotor but points directly in the guts of the rotor. Just what you want
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ducts001.jpg

Closer up of the one with the alloy piece.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ducts002.jpg

and both togeather. Both are the same length (one allow piece is still on the car. I am taking it off the camber bolt next time the wheels come off)
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk77/HSVListy/Ducts003.jpg

For sale for $170 per pair plus freight ($20 profit for me. Cost $150). Just kidding, as if. You can make then yourselves in no time with the photos I have here.

[Scotty]

Nick and I will get upto something like this soon...

What I would like to see is the effect brake ducting has on stock brakes...

[GTS Listy]

Nick and I will get upto something like this soon...

What I would like to see is the effect brake ducting has on stock brakes...

Would help for sure. Even better if you did the below:
High temp fluid $30, decent track brake pads $150, braided lines $250, master cylinder brace $50 and brake ducting around $50 with cheap hose.
As long as you keep the rotors at a reasonable temp and not cook the fluid I reckon they would work and give pretty good feedback on the pedal. Takes most of the weak points out of the stock brakes. Of course not drive around for too many laps without a break.

[GTS Listy]

I did a bit of testing with the ducts i made up. In the practice session i taped up the spotlights where the air flow goes. I did a few laps under normal race speed and come in after a warm down lap. Exactly the same as I do during a normal race. The temps were 450 degrees.
I unblocked them and at the end of race one after the warm down lap they were 212 degrees. Race 2 , 198 degrees and 3 and 4 all around 200. I never got any full temps at full race speed but just the sheer cooling difference is great.

Farly significant drop that is fore sure. They seem to work extremely well. Put it this way I am not blocking them off again as these will look after my rotors. I should have put the effort in with the Harrops.

I would recommend get some made up. One hours work and a bit of metal work all done. As mentioned only change is I zip tie them on to the strut now and not the camber bolts. You can get those flash zip ties that can handle 200 degrees plus. They have metal clips. About $30 for a packet from electrical stores.

[GTS Listy]

Would help for sure. Even better if you did the below:
High temp fluid $30, decent track brake pads $150, braided lines $250, master cylinder brace $50 and brake ducting around $50 with cheap hose.
As long as you keep the rotors at a reasonable temp and not cook the fluid I reckon they would work and give pretty good feedback on the pedal. Takes most of the weak points out of the stock brakes. Of course not drive around for too many laps without a break.

Has anyone actually tested the stock brakes with upgrades like the above. I think they would go ok. Could be a cheap way out of a expensive brake upgrade if you are not in a position to afford one yet.

[ghz28]

Yeah one of the guys down here was running a VE Calais, with SRF fluid, stock brakes and rotors, with Ultimate pads, best available at the time, and he had no brake issues in sprints.

Another one, Justin, who just joined, runs stock brakes on his VX SS with elcheapo pads and he manages times within mere tenths of mine on all the circuits we run. He has about 40kw more power than I do so the times are equalised by my higher cornering speeds, and his faster straight line speeds.

Just depends on how hard you like pushing I guess.

Garry

ps none of us use brake ducting yet, mine from Les Small is arriving tomorrow.

[.charged.]

Ive been running the Lucas grandprix 600 but found after the last state round
6, 6, 10 and a 15 lapper it had deteriorated badly, flushed the system with Motul RBF 600 syn and it worked great on last weekends practice day. See what happens at the November meet with a 8, 10, 16 lapper We are using AP600 in the nephews cars but $60 for 500 mls is expensive. Castrol SRF is expensive but good, a few guys who run in IP run the Martini 610gs with good results.

On pads Ive used EBC red and blacks and found them to be absolute rubbish, they last 1 meet and fall to bits due to heat. Hawks are great HT-10 and DTC 60. We have found once you find the right pads disc selection isnt critical as long as they dont warp from heat, slotting does very little to aid performace all 4 cars run just normal vented discs and no slots and cross drilling just leads to cracked rotors.