New rules for V8SC's

[seldo]

Some interesting new rules for the V8SC's:

amongst the changes is the requirement that each team's spare engine (the one to be used next) has to be on display in a dedicated "engine display area" able to be seen and inspected by one and all. There is also a ban on under bonnet covers and sight-screens and also same for under-car screens, so that there is no hiding your "secret" mods from prying eyes... Apparently the same with the pits too - they have to be open front and back.

Another new rule is that the teams have to list all the components that they use, their life-cycle, and they must be able to be bought by other competitors at a commercial price from either the using-team, or a commercial supplier.... Interesting stuff

[cosmo vyss]

Thats a bit disapointing. Where is the reward for testing and comming up with new mods and set ups that enhance the performance. If team holden come up with a better air induction system then team holden racing can just have a checkers and take their reseach and testing.

JB

[Kyle]

Another new rule is that the teams have to list all the components that they use, their life-cycle, and they must be able to be bought by other competitors at a commercial price from either the using-team, or a commercial supplier.... Interesting stuff


WOW, now that's got to be the most stupidest rule in history :headbang:

Sounds like something from out of the A1 rulebook..

[seldo]

Thats a bit disapointing. Where is the reward for testing and comming up with new mods and set ups that enhance the performance. If team holden come up with a better air induction system then team holden racing can just have a checkers and take their reseach and testing.

JB
Precisely! That's what is intended so that there is a closing-up of the field and the "haves" don't have the advantage over the "have-nots". It is supposed to be a cost-reducing measure. I believe there was also condideration given to the rule as applied in some series in other countries where anyone can forcibly buy another competitor's car for a pre-set amount...!!! Thus stopping teams spending a fortune on their cars... A bit scary I reckon...:eyes: :shock: So - if the pre-ordained figure was say $200k - there's no point spending much more than that on your car because the opposition could come along after a race and say "here's my cheque for $200k - just load it into my truck thanks..."

[eraser]

I hate rules. They discrimminate against people/teams who get off there arse and research a cars potentials and mods. Whats the incentive to try something new when you just have to turn around give your competitor the same mod/advantage. If they want to bring the drivers closer stick them all in the same model cars with the same mods.
Let the big boys go nuts on their cars, its what sponserships for. If teams cant afford to run in that category them maybe they shouldnt be in that category.

Carmino

[BOMI]

Weird, I guess they had to give Ford a chance some how :whip:



Troy :)

[Kyle]

Weird, I guess they had to give Ford a chance some how :whip:



Troy :)

Ok, im going to roll my eyes at you now...

http://bart.trendmill.nl/forum/rolleyes.jpg

[Quadcams]

Weird, I guess they had to give Ford a chance some how :whip:



Troy :)

Now now Troy! :toetap:

[NickS]

Don't encourage the slowest to catch the fastest ... slow everyone down to the pace of the slowest ???

VE with the wheel base and track of a VZ ... why even bother putting a Holden badge on it ... it's getting bloody ridiculous.

[scat2k3]

Don't encourage the slowest to catch the fastest ... slow everyone down to the pace of the slowest ???

VE with the wheel base and track of a VZ ... why even bother putting a Holden badge on it ... it's getting bloody ridiculous.

Exactly Nick. The badge and the team names are the only things on those cars that link them to Holden and Ford.

Who's coming to Bathurst at Easter to see some real Holdens and Fords (and a heap of other makes) run in the 12 hour race ???

Cheers,

Scott

[Brockfan05]

It's getting the same as any other series now - Indy cars, F1 etc. Everything good in motorsport eventually gets ruined by the bean counters and rulemakers.......damn shame really.

[eraser]

Don't encourage the slowest to catch the fastest ... slow everyone down to the pace of the slowest ???

VE with the wheel base and track of a VZ ... why even bother putting a Holden badge on it ... it's getting bloody ridiculous.

I dont consider them holdens at all. Not much holden left in them. Not even running holden engines in them.
Bring back the good old days where you bought a car of the showroom floor and raced it without modifying it. Those were the days of the true holden verses ford battles. It encouraged manufactures to build better cars that way.

[highlander_69r]

they might aswell just build a control car for the whole series now, 1 engine, chassis etc,change a shell to either ford or holden and race.

IMO i hope to many more changes like this dont happen, as it will loose more of its appeal and what little identity it has left.

like mentioned above very A1 :(

[scat2k3]

they might aswell just build a control car for the whole series now, 1 engine, chassis etc,change a shell to either ford or holden and race.

You've just described the current series perfectly. Its basically that now.

Cheers,

Scott

[235rwkw]

just about, different motors, and not the local fitted ones but the same power output. the may as well go one motor type thas all that left. anyone say A1

[cosmo vyss]

Its just a joke and take the real competiveness between camps engineers at out the game. If Ford can't keep up, well build a better car. :headbang: This is turnig me off watching the racing now. Whats the point its now just driver skill, its really take the emphasis or team cohesion.

End rant
JB

[OLS108]

i thought i noticed one of the cars with no Engine Cover early in the telecast..:toetap:

id like to see them Just calm down the rules a little.. everyone loves close racing.. But whats the Point in upgrading cars to the New VE if they are gonna be the same speed as the VZ ????

[DaveHAT]

Some interesting points here. I would like to propose an alternate way of thinking for consideration ... the HAVES and HAVE NOTS concept is very true, BUT the share of the motor racing money pie in Aust is only so big, which would seem to dictate who falls into the HAVES and HAVE NOTS catgory ... it usually does in my experience.

What if the HAVE NOTS want to still be involved in V8Supercars and put on a show for their equally important yet much less well funded sponsors? Should they just piss off and try another category because they can't afford to keep up with the HAVES? This scenario has an almost F! like smell to it IMO.

I agree that the concept of knee capping the better funded/ faster teams who can engage in testing etc ... to bring them back to the field is not right but is it any worse than the guys who want to be involved but can't afford to do so on a high level falling further and further behind to the point where they are just making up numbers on the grid?

Maybe I'm missing the point ... I have a history of doing stuff likethat.

[scat2k3]

.....I agree that the concept of knee capping the better funded/ faster teams who can engage in testing etc ... to bring them back to the field is not right but is it any worse than the guys who want to be involved but can't afford to do so on a high level falling further and further behind to the point where they are just making up numbers on the grid? ....

I think it is Dave. After all, this is supposed to be THE premier category of motor sport in the country. If thats the case, there is absolutely no room for have nots. You want to race in this category, you better be up to scratch with sponsors, research, marketing, engineering, the whole bit. If you don't have the budget and the car to be competitive, find another category that isn't so demmanding.

Cheers,

Scott

[Elite SS]

That absolutely sucks....the whole idea of building tuff cars and impressing the opposition and crowds has gone out the window.
Now it will be like "he's got the same as him" their will be no interest in testing mods, looking for better ideas.
The challenge will die in the ass...Engine builders will loose their credit of biulding tuff cars..all their secrets will be out the window...
I personaly can't see the benefit of it.
I can understand if the scrutaneers want to have a look at he engine before any comp, but why the public, or the opposition.
it will just loose the challenge of the competition.
My 2 c worth anyway.

[OLS108]

WTF was the deal ??? Rick kelly winning the Clipsal cause he won race 2 ??? what about his brother who Finished the races 1st and 2nd ??
Bloody Pointless rule that one.

[Aeron]

Some great racing today!! I hope Todd does well this year. Also its good to see SBR, and more so DJR, back up there. :D

[Azza]

The team engineers are a crafty lot, sure the new rules sound stupid to use and theres no point to them but, the old saying "There's more than one way to skin a cat".
I'm sure we will see some interesting set ups in future with more than meets the eye :up2sum:

[DaveHAT]

I think it is Dave. After all, this is supposed to be THE premier category of motor sport in the country. If thats the case, there is absolutely no room for have nots. You want to race in this category, you better be up to scratch with sponsors, research, marketing, engineering, the whole bit. If you don't have the budget and the car to be competitive, find another category that isn't so demmanding.

Cheers,

Scott

Good point Scott, but doesn't that risk the sport becoming an elitest sport whereby the few who can acquire big $$$ sponsors are the only ones who can "compete"? Potentially you could end up with very few cars making up a grid? Sounds a bit F1 like.

The motorsport sponsorship pie I would imagine would be only small in Australia compared to America for example, thus you have a potentially infinite number of competitors vying for a finite amount of comprehensive sponsor dollars. In a country this size I would imagine that would have a limited life expectancy.

The real issue with V8supercars is that IMO it's more about entertainment than racing ... which is good, yet also bad. Finding the mix between keeping things entertaining for the spectator who brings the $$$ and buys the sponsors products V's giving every competitor a fair go is hard and AVESCO are yet to get this mix right despite several years of trying IMO.

How does one achieve a good mix of entertainment for the spectators whilst not holding the HRT's, FPR etc back and giving the not quite as well finded teams a fair go?

Got me stuffed ... :confused:

[scat2k3]

Good point Scott, but doesn't that risk the sport becoming an elitest sport whereby the few who can acquire big $$$ sponsors are the only ones who can "compete"? Potentially you could end up with very few cars making up a grid? Sounds a bit F1 like.

The motorsport sponsorship pie I would imagine would be only small in Australia compared to America for example, thus you have a potentially infinite number of competitors vying for a finite amount of comprehensive sponsor dollars. In a country this size I would imagine that would have a limited life expectancy.

The real issue with V8supercars is that IMO it's more about entertainment than racing ... which is good, yet also bad. Finding the mix between keeping things entertaining for the spectator who brings the $$$ and buys the sponsors products V's giving every competitor a fair go is hard and AVESCO are yet to get this mix right despite several years of trying IMO.

How does one achieve a good mix of entertainment for the spectators whilst not holding the HRT's, FPR etc back and giving the not quite as well finded teams a fair go?

Got me stuffed ... :confused:


I think you hit the nail on the head there Dave. Entertainment Vs Racing and getting the mix right. Got me stuffed too. The V8 utes are going the same way. Did you know the Holdens have the throttle body restricted so that the Fords can be competitive? I suppose they have to do something to keep the fans coming back.

The sad part is that most fans haven't got a clue about the makeup of a V8 supercar. I heard some bloke after Lowndes won Bathurst last year say to his mate "You wouldn't drive a Holden ever again after that would you? You'd want to burn it".

I think they need to go back to racing true Holdens and Fords and let the manufactures start inovating again, ala the GTHO phase III, built for one purpose and one purpose only. To get around the mountain faster than the opposition. What new wizardy has Holden or Ford put into their current production cars that they developed and tested on the race cars in the last 10 years?

I'm looking foward to this production 12 hour race at Bathurst over Easter. It may not be as close and exciting to watch, and therefore won't generate the fans, sponsors or TV coverage, but its going to pit Fords, Holdens, Subaru's, V8's, Turbo 6's & 4's - the lot, against each other and the mountain. Can't wait.

Cheers,

Scott

[NickS]

WTF was the deal ??? Rick kelly winning the Clipsal cause he won race 2 ??? what about his brother who Finished the races 1st and 2nd ??
Bloody Pointless rule that one.

:hmmm: I guess they figure the winner of the big race is the weekends winner ???

Whoever was called the winner on the weekend, Todd is leading the championship. It was quite satisfying (for me at least) to see Rick shut up all the knockers from last year with an extremelly strong start to the season. I would have preferred to see Todd win both races, but I'll settle for this result.

On another note, I have been thinking the new cars look really average all the way through the lead up, but on the track they looked sensational, really, really impressive IMO. Any one else have an opinion ?

[RedVYIISS]

great racing was the end result.... even if the cars are a little homogenous. Considering the close racing there were remarkably few driver errors, and considering that most were brand new cars, reliability was amazing. A great start to the season IMO.

The Kelly brothers are proving that they are real racers and good to see Stone Bros and DJR competitive and confidant.

[seldo]

Some interesting points here. I would like to propose an alternate way of thinking for consideration ... the HAVES and HAVE NOTS concept is very true, BUT the share of the motor racing money pie in Aust is only so big, which would seem to dictate who falls into the HAVES and HAVE NOTS catgory ... it usually does in my experience.

What if the HAVE NOTS want to still be involved in V8Supercars and put on a show for their equally important yet much less well funded sponsors? Should they just piss off and try another category because they can't afford to keep up with the HAVES? This scenario has an almost F! like smell to it IMO.

I agree that the concept of knee capping the better funded/ faster teams who can engage in testing etc ... to bring them back to the field is not right but is it any worse than the guys who want to be involved but can't afford to do so on a high level falling further and further behind to the point where they are just making up numbers on the grid?

Maybe I'm missing the point ... I have a history of doing stuff likethat.

Did you notice that the SBR and DJR cars were suddenly right up there..?
I understand that there is suddenly a lot of sharing going on in the Ford camp and that Triple 8 are providing "engineering" expertise to the others - read chassis set-up.
It was also interesting to note the new "freedom" with which the TV crew were allowed into the pit garages and looking under and into the cars even while it was all happening...

[CarlFST60L]

I know, lets start our own series that runs parallel with the V8SC's. We basically take the two V8 giants, E series GTS and GT, then we give em slicks, roll cage, NA Bolt on mod's only only and a minimum weight and leave all the other rules the same as V8SC...

Wouldnt we all be board of seeing one brand taking complete ownage of the other? (I reakon it would be great!)

They could just adopt those rules with V8 Brutes, allow the commo's to run 7500rpm limiters instead of reducing them to match the Ford :rolleyes:

[scat2k3]

Fair call Carl, but my beef with all this is the fact that they are hobbling race cars. It used to be that if your car wasn't as quick, you had to find a way to make it as quick or quicker. Now its all about bringing the quicker cars back to the field by some form of restriction.

Its not so much about the cars any more, but more driver and crew.

Cheers,

Scott

[NickS]

Fair call Carl, but my beef with all this is the fact that they are hobbling race cars. It used to be that if your car wasn't as quick, you had to find a way to make it as quick or quicker. Now its all about bringing the quicker cars back to the field by some form of restriction.

Its not so much about the cars any more, but more driver and crew.

Cheers,

Scott

My thoughts exactly Scat, the slower cars used to have to catch the faster cars ... now they just slow the fast guys down so that the slower guys don't have to do anything.

I know it's all about budgets & $$$, just sucks to see a team work really hard, achieve great results and then get slogged a penalty because they did what they are being paid to do, too well.

:confused: