Head Surgery For Erik [Archive] - TrackChat - Any Car! Any Track!

scat2k3

05-04-2007, 06:26 AM

So, which well known Bus Racer is having some long anticipated head surgery right about now? If I had planned this right i could have sold you my heads!

Are we talking engine work or is he getting his ugly mellon shaved again :lol:

Cheers,

Scott

lautray

05-04-2007, 11:00 AM

Are we talking engine work or is he getting his ugly mellon shaved again :lol:
If all goes well at the nats, I may be sporting another smooth melon :shock: .

I think Dunc was referring to engine though :D :bravo: :bravo: :bravo: .

justin@russo

05-04-2007, 09:39 PM

Erik finally the heads are on your car everthing went well i will put up some pics tomorrow.

lautray

06-04-2007, 08:18 AM

Giddyup :bravo: :bravo: .

NickS

06-04-2007, 08:21 AM

Giddyup :bravo: :bravo: .

What sort of difference are you expecting from the heads mate ... honestly, I don't even know what different heads are meant to achieve ?

Showing my ignorance here I'm sure, but if I don't ask I'll never know.

lautray

06-04-2007, 08:49 AM

Not sure Nick. But if Dunc's car is/was any indication, will be good times. Will dyno when I have time.

scat2k3

06-04-2007, 06:18 PM

Good to hear Erik, you've always had a really strong engine and I can only imagine what its going to do at the track and the strip.

Might have to get some of those high HP axels me thinks :shock:

Cheers,

Scott

BOMI

06-04-2007, 06:52 PM

Heads are an extentions of the bigger throttle body thing yeah fellas???

More air in and gases out??

Im with you Nick, I know fudge all about heads!!

Troy :)

DaveHAT

06-04-2007, 07:01 PM

What sort of difference are you expecting from the heads mate ... honestly, I don't even know what different heads are meant to achieve ?

Showing my ignorance here I'm sure, but if I don't ask I'll never know.

Nick, as I understand it ... bigger/ported heads should flow more air/gases, which should allow for more fuel into the cylindar and more efficient expulsion of gases from the cylindar into the exhaust... which should = more power.

I think ... :confused:

Hard to imagine Erik's car being any more efficient given 296kw with just a CAM in tri-y headers still in place. Given Erik's modoestly cryptic nature I wouldn't be suprised if other shite was being done as well ... all under the cloak of SHULTZ !!!!!!!!! :lol:

SSUte01

06-04-2007, 07:06 PM

KISS principle of why heads are good.

Think of your engine like you are saying Troy - Get it in and get it out.

More specifically:

- suck air in as fast as possible
- squeeze it as hard as you can or your fuel will allow (compression)
- bang at the right time (tune)
- expel as quickly as possible - there are comlications to this, along the lines of why super dooper large exhausts lose down low but remember for purposes of this KISS.

So the head work allows the air into the combustion chamber more easily, allows it to be squeezed harded because the compression ratio in this case has risen (smaller combustion chamber), and then it is expelled more effeiciently ie less resistence.

End result, more power and torque from given amount of air/fuel added to fact you can flow more of it.

I know that the above desription isn't technically precise, but you get the idea.

If anyone has anything to add/correct, chime in

Luke :)

BOMI

06-04-2007, 07:35 PM

Thanks Luke, I liked the way you wrote that mate, makes sense.

Troy :)

veewhytu

06-04-2007, 07:44 PM

Thanks Luke, I liked the way you wrote that mate, makes sense.

Troy :)

:yep: :yep:

Additionally, typically you could expect to see a reduction of 2-3 tenths over the 1/4 when compared to a cam only setup with a nice improvement of torque throughout the rev range.
Most that have gone from cam only to h/c comment that it smooths the car out a lot and generally makes it nicer to drive...this is only hearsay as mine is sans heads (for now).

Tiger ss if im not mistaken havent you recently had a headjob...maybe you could give us your opinion :)

DaveHAT

06-04-2007, 08:12 PM

:yep: :yep:

Additionally, typically you could expect to see a reduction of 2-3 tenths over the 1/4 when compared to a cam only setup with a nice improvement of torque throughout the rev range.
Most that have gone from cam only to h/c comment that it smooths the car out a lot and generally makes it nicer to drive...this is only hearsay as mine is sans heads (for now).

Tiger ss if im not mistaken havent you recently had a headjob...maybe you could give us your opinion :)

No heads here Rick other than the ones Chevrolet Mexico put on it back in 1999. I just felt left out amongst all the H&C and turbo names on the list ... :lol:

It does have heads though :lol: technically speaking.:headbang:

lautray

06-04-2007, 08:21 PM

Hard to imagine Erik's car being any more efficient given 296kw with just a CAM in tri-y headers still in place. Given Erik's modestly cryptic nature I wouldn't be surprised if other shite was being done as well ... all under the cloak of SHULTZ !!!!!!!!! :lol:
No other goodies just yet.

Additionally, typically you could expect to see a reduction of 2-3 tenths over the 1/4 when compared to a cam only setup with a nice improvement of torque throughout the rev range.
I'd be happy with 2-3 tenths off my Wakefield time :D. But, am expecting much improved 1/4 times next week. Fingers crossed.

Picked the car up from the Russo Brothers this afternoon (Thanks for the lift Dunc :cheers:). Haven't really been able to give it much wot yet as the road was wet. Where I did though, :burnout: :woohoo:. Feels angrier :bravo: .

A big :thumbs: to Justin & Christian. Nice work. And again, another happy customer. Worth waiting for.

veewhytu

06-04-2007, 08:28 PM

No heads here Rick other than the ones Chevrolet Mexico put on it back in 1999. I just felt left out amongst all the H&C and turbo names on the list ... :lol:

It does have heads though :lol: technically speaking.:headbang:

oops my bad...bring em round and we'll get the die grinder out and do a bit of home porting, it cant be that hard surely!:lol:

you dont mind if we do yours first do you :nana:

DaveHAT

06-04-2007, 08:35 PM

oops my bad...bring em round and we'll get the die grinder out and do a bit of home porting, it cant be that hard surely!:lol:

you dont mind if we do yours first do you :nana:

I like where your head is at Rick :bravo: ... a big fan of DIY myself. I'll bring me handy dremmel. Shall we apply the measuring stick of "some is good therefore more MUST be better"??? :shock:

I figure it can't hurt ... I can't possibly go too much slower than I already do :lol:

BOMI

06-04-2007, 08:57 PM

No other goodies just yet.

I'd be happy with 2-3 tenths off my Wakefield time :D. But, am expecting much improved 1/4 times next week. Fingers crossed.

Picked the car up from the Russo Brothers this afternoon (Thanks for the lift Dunc :cheers:). Haven't really been able to give it much wot yet as the road was wet. Where I did though, :burnout: :woohoo:. Feels angrier :bravo: .

A big :thumbs: to Justin & Christian. Nice work. And again, another happy customer. Worth waiting for.

12 to 18 seconds off your wakey PB :eek: :eek:

Ohhhhh 2 to 3 tenths of a second :yep:

Ok

Troy :lmao:

Febs

08-04-2007, 08:03 PM

12 to 18 seconds off your wakey PB :eek: :eek:

Them's some good heads! :lol:

Looking forward to seeing this in action Erik...there's been a distinct lack of angry white SS's getting around since Ashley sold his. Good to see you've picked up the slack. :D

Cheers,
- Febs.

BlooHAT

08-04-2007, 10:27 PM

veewhytu

09-04-2007, 09:43 AM

I personally would love to do heads on my ls1. The 224/228 is a pretty good cam anyway, but i have driven a h/c car and know how nice they make them to drive. Trying to justify 4k for it is harder though.

Dan

4k!:shock: ...maybe for a set of cnc darts with additional porting, you an get some nice gains by having your existing heads ported for 1/2 that.:yep:

SSUte01

09-04-2007, 10:58 AM

Or half of that again.

Mine cost $500 for the porting work - benefit of a business not on the LS1 train where everything costs a fortune - he has worked for race teams and into the drag scene as well, so he cant be all bad. I didn't go for extreme port work, just enough to improve them ~270cfm vs 235cfm std

The milling/shaving cost $380 and they even put the new springs on for me.

All up $880 for a set of heads flowed to 550hp (stock they were 480hp which is pretty impressive for a std head). And compression ratio is somewhere ~10.7-10.9. Gaskets cost about $400 IIRC and then labour to put them back on. Very worthwhile IMO.

I think you could get away with $1500 -2000 easily. A lot less if you can turn some spanners yourself. Mine might have been more if I had requested more porting etc, but I am most happy.

veewhytu

09-04-2007, 07:15 PM

Spot on Luke..Its a pretty labour intensive job and i was quoted "about a day & a halfs labour do do it properly"...now if we worked on that and called it 12 hrs x say 60 bux an hour, its about $720 in porting, plus remove & replace, gaskets etc. Its still a long way from 4 large.

Im assuming most guys that get heads done are moving on from cam only & have 918 springs already.

Im still keen to give it a go though if Daves keen to put his heads up for (un)improvement :lmao:

Just so you know im the real deal Dave i ported the heads on my 350ci 64 Impala circa 1993 ...not sure if it went better or worse ....used a shitload of petrol though! :lol:

SSUte01

09-04-2007, 07:20 PM

Im still keen to give it a go though if Daves keen to put his heads up for (un)improvement :lmao:

Just so you know im the real deal Dave i ported the heads on my 350ci 64 Impala circa 1993 ...not sure if it went better or worse ....used a shitload of petrol though! :lol:

I'll supply the die grinder and beer, how many beers do reckon I can consume in the time it take you to port Dave's heads - imagine the commentry :beer: EDIT: Dave, you don't get a say in this

BTW - Erik, how are they now that the roads have dried up??

BlooHAT

09-04-2007, 07:33 PM

SSUte01

09-04-2007, 07:38 PM

The price i got was roughly, on higgins heads with new head bolts as well, and a touch up tune. I may ask again sometime, when i know more what i want from my car. Do you think i could get away without a touch up tune ? I may need to seek another opinion...

Dan

Dan,

IMO, short answer is no, anything that changes the way the engine flows air requires the airflow model to be adjusted accordingly (ie MAF curve or VE table in this case), also timing will need to be optimised.

You *could* get away with it, but it certainly wouldn't be as good as it could be, same goes for any mod that effects engine efficieny. My 2c, probably others that disagree

Luke :)

lautray

09-04-2007, 07:42 PM

BTW - Erik, how are they now that the roads have dried up??
The car is awesome... gains right through the rev range; the mid-range really kicks hard & it spins very freely. I can see how Dunc's h/c used to spin to 7000 easily. Traction has become more of an issue now. The sotp feel compared to cam only is significantly more :D. Will hopefully dyno in next few weeks. The tri-y's seem to be working ok atm, but got the DF 1 3/4 4>1's at the ready.

veewhytu

09-04-2007, 07:49 PM

I'll supply the die grinder and beer, how many beers do reckon I can consume in the time it take you to port Dave's heads - imagine the commentry :beer: EDIT: Dave, you don't get a say in this

BTW - Erik, how are they now that the roads have dried up??

Dunno about you mate, but i reackon i could fcuk -sorry "fix" them up real good in 12 beers! :beer:

SSUte01

09-04-2007, 07:50 PM

The car is awesome... gains right through the rev range; the mid-range really kicks hard & it spins very freely. I can see how Dunc's h/c used to spin to 7000 easily. Traction has become more of an issue now. The sotp feel compared to cam only is significantly more :D. Will hopefully dyno in next few weeks. The tri-y's seem to be working ok atm, but got the DF 1 3/4 4>1's at the ready.

Awesome - Glad to hear it.

BTW - Nothing wrong with Tri-Ys hehe ;) but I think that the DF should go just a little bit alright too

Dunno about you mate, but i reackon i could fcuk -sorry "fix" them up real good in 12 beers! :beer:

They would be fixed alright - nice one ;)

veewhytu

09-04-2007, 08:00 PM

The car is awesome... gains right through the rev range; the mid-range really kicks hard & it spins very freely. I can see how Dunc's h/c used to spin to 7000 easily. Traction has become more of an issue now. The sotp feel compared to cam only is significantly more :D. Will hopefully dyno in next few weeks. The tri-y's seem to be working ok atm, but got the DF 1 3/4 4>1's at the ready.

Does it feel "a lot" more powerful than the cam only Erik? Sorry for the dumbass question , i dont know how else to put it.

Ill be interested to see the difference with the 4-1s also, everything seem to suggest they are a restriction at this stage, but i had no probs running 124mph with a dangerously inadequate fuel system....im sure theres something there but im trying to figure out how much it is.

Personally if its only costing me a tenth or so against a full 4-1 & 3 inch system ill keep my wedge in the pocket & spend it elsewhere.:)

lautray

09-04-2007, 08:30 PM

Does it feel "a lot" more powerful than the cam only Erik? Sorry for the dumbass question , i dont know how else to put it.

Rick, I don't think that it is the same leap as from, say, bolt-on to cam only, but I think sotp-meter says it is definitely quantifiable & worthwhile.

Ill be interested to see the difference with the 4-1s also, everything seem to suggest they are a restriction at this stage, but i had no probs running 124mph with a dangerously inadequate fuel system....im sure theres something there but im trying to figure out how much it is.

Will report back shortly. Many have said that tri-y's wil not flow enough post bolt-on ie cam only or h/c, but others say tri's are fine. There must be gains going from 1 5/8 tri's with factory cats to 1 3/4 4>1 with 3" cats, surely? What headers are you running?

Personally if its only costing me a tenth or so against a full 4-1 & 3 inch system ill keep my wedge in the pocket & spend it elsewhere.:)

My catback still dual 2 1/2". Though, I have spied a nice dual 3" recently.... I am weighing up the pro's & con's for a catback upgrade.

veewhytu

09-04-2007, 09:03 PM

[QUOTE=lautray;11657]Rick, I don't think that it is the same leap as from, say, bolt-on to cam only, but I think sotp-meter says it is definitely quantifiable & worthwhile.

Thanks for that Erik :) , Im still using my 1 5/8 tri ys with a dual 2.5 inch cat back with opened oem cats.....the goal at this stage is to run a 10 as it is then the nos will be coming off and i'll be trying to get real close n/a.

I'll be keeping a close eye on your car as it progresses! :bravo:

Ive no doubt that a set of 4-1s will result in a "peak" power increase on the dyno...but will this translate into quantifiable no's at the track on my relatively low power readings....who knows ?....interested to hear any thoughts anyone may have on this!

oztrack

09-04-2007, 10:37 PM

I think my DF 1"7/8 and 3" metal cats were worth at least 3% over the 1"5/8 4 into 1s short pipes and 2"1/2 metal cats. Its even more down low. This equates to around 0.12s at the track and around 1.5mph. So they are a worthwhile mod. Also more of an incentive is improved "beatiness" a nicer sound.

Its likely heads will give more of a total gain when you change the extractors, intake and TB. The Fast/90mm have given me a larger shove in the back than expected. I bet all of this wouldnt have worke as well with stock heads.

35R

10-04-2007, 06:04 AM

The car is awesome... gains right through the rev range; the mid-range really kicks hard & it spins very freely. I can see how Dunc's h/c used to spin to 7000 easily

Good for Wakefield! (lots of fun anyway) I couldnt believe how quickly mine spun up to 7000rpm, and it just felt like it would keep going too.